High, I'm planning on playing a summoner and the class comes with a few features that are not quite clear to me.
1: If a summoner uses their Summon Monster spell-like ability, can they summon more than one monster at once with it?
2: Do claws and wing buffets count as two attacks when calculating the maximum number of attacks the eidolon gets (as they are literally two attacks) or as one attack (as the pair is only one evolution)?
3: If an Eidolon gets the flight evolution and upgrades it to magical flight, can they decide to keep the wings in order to upgrade them with a wing buffet?
4: Does rend count as an attack against the maximum number of attacks available to the Eidolon?
5: If an eidolon hits with a multiple two claws in a round, for example with 4 do you get the rend bonus damages multiple times too?
6: Do really all claw, bite, slam and gore attacks of an eidolon count as primary (and thus hit at full BAB and full STR modifier) when used in the same full attack action?
That's what I have at the moment, I'll let you know if more questions pop up.
1: Yes, Once you get sufficiently high enough to cast the next level/tier of spell. (1d3 or 1d4+1)
Ex: Monster Summoning I = 1 creature, but Monster Summoning II can summon 1d3 creatures off of MS I's list OR 1 creature from MS II's list.
2: Claws = 2 primary attacks, Wing Buffet = 2 secondary attacks. At least that is my understanding of it. You could more attack capability, but you would only be able to swing up to you maximum allowed.
Ex: You have 4 "allowed" attacks, but you have claws, wings and a tail(sting or slap). You basically have to choose which attack doesn't get used every round.
3: Yes, they just wouldn't be "required" for flight.
4: No, it is bonus damage that occurs when you strike with 2 claw attacks.
5: I don't know, the "rend" ability doesn't specify that it only applies to one instance of claws. As written I'd say it applies to all of your claw attacks, but that goes against how every other ability works.
Ex: sting & poison require multiple tails for each instance of sting & poison. (poison can also be a bite)
6: Yes, up to your number of maximum attacks allowed. Note: slam replaces or is instead of claws, you can't have slam & claws on the same set of limbs evolution.
Does the bonus from the Augment Summoning feat add to your Eidolon?
Jason Bulmahn said NO, but it does apply to your Monster Summoning SLA. The Eidolon is NOT a spell "normally". However, the Summoner has a spell 'Summon Eidolon'(has a duration), I would think Augmented Summoning does apply in that instance, but I do not know the "official" answer. The spell has questionable wording... "treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally", but it qualifies for the text of Augmented Summoning... SUMMON SPELL.
EDIT: Ninja'd
Sorry Dragonborn3, I was lingering from my first post, lol. Making sure it was understandable and hopefully accurate.
On the multiple Rends per round matter:
I know that the Eidolon's Rend doesn't say anything about a limit, but most of the Eidolons abilities seem to be based on monster abilities. The Rend ability in the general monster rules in the Bestiary clearly says only one Rend per round. I personally would leave it at that. Otherwise you could rend up to 4 times per round (at level 20, with 8 claw attacks) for a total damage of 12d4 plus 14 (!!!) times your strength modifier. And that's the low end of the scale without increasing the claw attack's base die by taking Improved Damage or having a large/huge Eidolon.
Thanks for the answers so far. And also about the Augment Summoning, that's what I was going to ask next.
Here's another one anyway:
Which Summon Monster spells can a Summoner really choose for his spells known? The list in my APG says: 1st: Summon Monster I; 2nd: Summon Monster II; 3rd: Summon Monster IV; 4th: Summon Monster V; 5th: Summon Monster VII; 6th: Summon Monster IV (??)
Mostly the last one confuses me, the 2 tier skips from 2nd to 3rd leven and 4th to 5th level seem to be to have the summoner have access to the all of kind of spells his class is named after without having all 9 spell levels. But what about that one at 6th level, is it a mispelled IX or a mispelled VIII?
On the multiple Rends per round matter:
I know that the Eidolon's Rend doesn't say anything about a limit, but most of the Eidolons abilities seem to be based on monster abilities. The Rend ability in the general monster rules in the Bestiary clearly says only one Rend per round. I personally would leave it at that. Otherwise you could rend up to 4 times per round (at level 20, with 8 claw attacks) for a total damage of 12d4 plus 14 (!!!) times your strength modifier. And that's the low end of the scale without increasing the claw attack's base die by taking Improved Damage or having a large/huge Eidolon.
You can only have 7 attacks at maximum (unless there's an evolution that grants access to an extra attack) so that would be three rends and those would only apply if all 6 claws hit.
But additionally to size increase and Improved damage you can also take the improved natural attack feat to add to it :D
Don't think we got an official word on this yet (might have missed it, though), but I'm pretty sure you get Summon Monster IX as a level 6 spell. It's one level earlier than a wizard can get it but after all, you ARE a summoner. Also, it seems more likely to type an "V" instead of an "X" than mixing up the order of "V" and "I" and forgetting two "Is".
You can only have 7 attacks at maximum (unless there's an evolution that grants access to an extra attack) so that would be three rends and those would only apply if all 6 claws hit.
Oh, interesting. I was looking at the d20SRD for the maximum number of attacks and it lists 8 at level 20. But you are correct, the APG says "only" 7. Yet another Summoner nerf since playtest I guess.
Don't think we got an official word on this yet (might have missed it, though), but I'm pretty sure you get Summon Monster IX as a level 6 spell. It's one level earlier than a wizard can get it but after all, you ARE a summoner. Also, it seems more likely to type an "V" instead of an "X" than mixing up the order of "V" and "I" and forgetting two "Is".
That's reasonable, but it might also be that the author just got tired with typing "summon monster" all the time so just copy/pasted them and forgot to change the number on the last one or something.
Anyway here's yet another question:
Does an Eidolon roll for HP at first level or does it get the full HD, like a Player Character? (and for that matter, what about Animal Companions, Familiars and other such Companion creatures?)
Also: is there any other way for an eidolon to regain hitpoints other than the fast healing evolution and active healing abilities such as spells, potions etc? The APG says it doesn't heal naturally, so I came to think this is a rather critical problem, if you have a few days of adventuring ahead and can't afford to buy potions/wands/pay clerics all the time.
That's reasonable, but it might also be that the author just got tired with typing "summon monster" all the time so just copy/pasted them and forgot to change the number on the last one or something.Don't think we got an official word on this yet (might have missed it, though), but I'm pretty sure you get Summon Monster IX as a level 6 spell. It's one level earlier than a wizard can get it but after all, you ARE a summoner. Also, it seems more likely to type an "V" instead of an "X" than mixing up the order of "V" and "I" and forgetting two "Is".
I believe there was an official ruling on this, many reliable sources have said so... That is that it does skip and it's suppose to be IX. However I never saw the actual thread. *shrug*
Does an Eidolon roll for HP at first level or does it get the full HD, like a Player Character? (and for that matter, what about Animal Companions, Familiars and other such Companion creatures?)
In our home campaign we play everything is full HP/HD at 1st level, but I have no clue what the official ruling is. NOTE: Familiars have HALF their master's HPs (rounded down) regardless of the number of HD.
Also: is there any other way for an eidolon to regain hitpoints other than the fast healing evolution and active healing abilities such as spells, potions etc? The APG says it doesn't heal naturally, so I came to think this is a rather critical problem, if you have a few days of adventuring ahead and can't afford to buy potions/wands/pay clerics all the time.
Summoner gets the spell Rejuvenate Eidolon, but I don't think there is any other way short of cure spells, etc. Reminds me a lot of the warforged in 3.5E and the Repair spells.
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I'm curious on Summon Eidilon and effects of feats too.
Level 5
A damage-focused Biped (Str 20, evolutions horn bite increase str energy armor x 2)
Summoner feats: Summoner Call, Augment Summons
Can summon up a Str 26 Con 17 eidilon for mins/level as a 2nd level spell, while standard-action summoning.
Attacks: +10 (+8 Str +4 Bab -2 Power Attack)
Damage: 2d6+12 (2), d6+d4+12 (2)
With lots of hp (con increase)... Seems somewhat sick for level 5.
I'm curious on Summon Eidilon and effects of feats too.
Level 5
A damage-focused Biped (Str 20, evolutions horn bite increase str energy armor x 2)
Summoner feats: Summoner Call, Augment Summons
Can summon up a Str 26 Con 17 eidilon for mins/level as a 2nd level spell, while standard-action summoning.
Attacks: +10 (+8 Str +4 Bab -2 Power Attack)
Damage: 2d6+12 (2), d6+d4+12 (2)With lots of hp (con increase)... Seems somewhat sick for level 5.
That definitely doesn't work. Both Augment Summoning and Summoner's Call provide an enhancement bonus so they don't stack. Also Summoner's call only adds to only one ability.
And I really don't understand how you got to those damage dice. how do you get 2d6 and d6+d4 with a gore and a bite? And how do you get to Str 20 at fifth level anyway?
3: If an Eidolon gets the flight evolution and upgrades it to magical flight, can they decide to keep the wings in order to upgrade them with a wing buffet?The rules says you loose your wings when you gain the Magical flight:
Flight (Ex or Su):... For 2 additional evolution points,
the eidolon f lies by means of magic. It loses its wings, but
its maneuverability increases to perfect.
Perhaps this is why you gain the Perfect maneuverability: You don't have bulky wings to add to the 'drag' factor....!? It must be easier to 'spin' on yourself if you don't have 10' wings... :D