Concern re: Spell Combat


Round 1: Magus

Contributor

Okay, now I know some folks are already crying out that the magus should be able to do more in a given round, and that there aren't enough swift actions to go around, etc., but I'm more concerned with balance and sanity at the table than I am with how 'cool' the magus is to play, so I'm going to come right out and express my problem:

The spell combat ability, as written, gives the magus too much power.

A Quicken Spell, once per round, every round--so long as the magus takes the full attack action--is powerful enough (and yes, I know the character takes a penalty to attacks; that penalty becomes moot as the character advances in level, and is still not the equal of the Quicken Spell increase for spell slots). Its power is increased by an order of magnitude if it doesn't take a swift action to cast the spell.

On the whole, the magus is a pretty darned cool class, but I think the way it currently reads is as a class that's going to take a full attack action every round, even with the penalty. It's possible I'm wrong, and all but certain I'm in the minority, but this is playtest time, after all, and I've gotta speak my peace.


Brian Cortijo wrote:

Okay, now I know some folks are already crying out that the magus should be able to do more in a given round, and that there aren't enough swift actions to go around, etc., but I'm more concerned with balance and sanity at the table than I am with how 'cool' the magus is to play, so I'm going to come right out and express my problem:

The spell combat ability, as written, gives the magus too much power.

A Quicken Spell, once per round, every round--so long as the magus takes the full attack action--is powerful enough (and yes, I know the character takes a penalty to attacks; that penalty becomes moot as the character advances in level, and is still not the equal of the Quicken Spell increase for spell slots). Its power is increased by an order of magnitude if it doesn't take a swift action to cast the spell.

On the whole, the magus is a pretty darned cool class, but I think the way it currently reads is as a class that's going to take a full attack action every round, even with the penalty. It's possible I'm wrong, and all but certain I'm in the minority, but this is playtest time, after all, and I've gotta speak my peace.

I was initially pretty shocked by the ability as well, but when I ran the numbers, it seems to be pretty balanced to me (actually, there are a few threads here claiming it's too underpowered at low levels where I've been arguing its usefulness).

The keys to the balance, even when the penalties disappear, as I see it, are that the class gets 3/4 BAB, Bard speed of spell progression with no significant early entry spells (unlike the Bard or Summoner, for instance), and is forced to use a single one-handed weapon to fight with, which is a weak fighting style. All of these except the last are not very noticeable at low levels (not really too much behind the Sorcerer in casting until level 6, for instance, and not behind the Fighter by more than 1 or 2 to hit until level 5), and that's why the penalty is higher at low levels.


I remember the psionics rants: Looks like characters that can unleash a lot of their power in a single round and/or encounter leads to hate.
I hope it isn't the case of the Magus, but having a spell level cap of 6 it doesn't seem possible.
In theory a Magus can cast two spells per round and perform a full round attack, true. However you have to cast at least one quickened spell to do so, the Magus can cast 2nd quickened level spells at best (high level), or cast any quickened spell once per day.
One round of Magus fury per day looks rigth, and casting an additional 2nd level spell (using a 6th level slot) when you are a high level character isn't a great thing.
It is ok as it is, it doesn't need to do more in a given round, but removing the current features would make the Magus underpowered and would remove one of the things that makes the class unique.


Brian Cortijo wrote:

Okay, now I know some folks are already crying out that the magus should be able to do more in a given round, and that there aren't enough swift actions to go around, etc., but I'm more concerned with balance and sanity at the table than I am with how 'cool' the magus is to play, so I'm going to come right out and express my problem:

The spell combat ability, as written, gives the magus too much power.

A Quicken Spell, once per round, every round--so long as the magus takes the full attack action--is powerful enough (and yes, I know the character takes a penalty to attacks; that penalty becomes moot as the character advances in level, and is still not the equal of the Quicken Spell increase for spell slots). Its power is increased by an order of magnitude if it doesn't take a swift action to cast the spell.

On the whole, the magus is a pretty darned cool class, but I think the way it currently reads is as a class that's going to take a full attack action every round, even with the penalty. It's possible I'm wrong, and all but certain I'm in the minority, but this is playtest time, after all, and I've gotta speak my peace.

I can see where you are comming from, it seems rather powerfull, but by using spell combat the medium BAB magus suffers a -4 to attack rolls, this seems fair - at least on paper.

The other thing about the Magus is, that he doesn´t have all that many spells to sling each day. Some first level slots are sooner or later used for shield spells, the same happens for second level spells and everything from haste to fly can fill the 3rd level slots.

If there is a real problem here, it´s that the can burn through his spels to quick.

That said you could change the ability to prevent casting another spell through the quicken spell feat in the same round - but I don´t really think its´necessary.

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