Masterwork does not at an extra +1 to the magic rating, it's just a prerequisite for enchanting, all it costs is the 300 for making the weapon masterwork.
You're adding the base price to the magic supplies cost. The magic supplies cost is how much it costs to craft the item.
The time spent to craft it is based on base price. And you don't add masterwork as +1. That's the 300gp. That's why the longsword costs 315gp instead of 15gp.
So as per your example it should read:
M/Work Longsword: 315gp
Base Price (to buy): Enhancement bonus (+3); Flaming Burst (+2). Total Enhancement bonus of +5 = 50,000gp. Plus 315gp = 50,315gp.
To enchant yourself halve the base price = 25,000gp + 315gp = 25,315gp
To enchant yourself and craft the sword yourself halve the lot = 50,315 divided by 2 = 25,157gp, 5sp.
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
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Masterwork does not at an extra +1 to the magic rating, it's just a prerequisite for enchanting, all it costs is the 300 for making the weapon masterwork.
Making a +2 sword:
300(gc)+normal weapon cost + 4000 PO in materials and your own enchanments. No more.
Buying a +2 sword:
300(gc)+ normal weapon cost +8000po
Well yeah, because then you're buying the masterwork longsword rather than making it yourself.
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
Ok, to clarify, if you wanted to create a +10 Longsword (+5 hit/damage and +5 to abilities) the caster level would need to be 30? Or does enhancement bonus only count towards the +5 to hit/damage?
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
Now i'm wondering, because Piazo screwed up the wording by using must when you don't have to, is that a MUST must or a Must OR the spellcraft dc increases by 5?
Ok, to clarify, if you wanted to create a +10 Longsword (+5 hit/damage and +5 to abilities) the caster level would need to be 30? Or does enhancement bonus only count towards the +5 to hit/damage?
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
Indeed. A +1 longsword and a +1 flaming keen scythe would both have a prereq of CL 3 (enhancement x3) while a +5 longsword would need a CL of 15 to create, as would a +5 holy wounding greatsword, for example. Same with armor and shields.
Question of my own: does the creation time depend on the cost of the item to buy or to create?
Ok, to clarify, if you wanted to create a +10 Longsword (+5 hit/damage and +5 to abilities) the caster level would need to be 30? Or does enhancement bonus only count towards the +5 to hit/damage?
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.Indeed. A +1 longsword and a +1 flaming keen scythe would both have a prereq of CL 3 (enhancement x3) while a +5 longsword would need a CL of 15 to create, as would a +5 holy wounding greatsword, for example. Same with armor and shields.
Ok, that sounds a bit better. I was going to say, CL 30 for a +10(with abilities) was steep, even being a +10.
As for your question, you craft 1000 gp per day of the base price. So the creation time will of course vary, depending on the base cost of the item.
Now, you can shorten the time if you make really good rolls. I think you have to at least double the DC check to make any difference, though.
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add a +1 enhancement bonus requiere three levels. You can add a +5 with level 15 but the especial qualities like flaming...etc require his own CL check, and you can craft (when you are level 9) a +3 longsword, flaming and holy (if you have the money of course) because you fulfill the caster level requirement for those properties.
You're adding the base price to the magic supplies cost. The magic supplies cost is how much it costs to craft the item.
The time spent to craft it is based on base price. And you don't add masterwork as +1. That's the 300gp. That's why the longsword costs 315gp instead of 15gp.
So as per your example it should read:
M/Work Longsword: 315gp
Base Price (to buy): Enhancement bonus (+3); Flaming Burst (+2). Total Enhancement bonus of +5 = 50,000gp. Plus 315gp = 50,315gp.To enchant yourself halve the base price = 25,000gp + 315gp = 25,315gp
To enchant yourself and craft the sword yourself halve the lot = 50,315 divided by 2 = 25,157gp, 5sp.
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
OK, so caster level of 15 required.
So, to both craft & enchant a masterwork longsword costs less than just enchanting a masterwork longsword alone?
No, the required caster level isn't 15. It's whichever is worse: the caster level for flaming burst or the caster level of 9 for a weapon with a +3 enhancement bonus. Since flaming burst has a requirement of CL 12, that's the prerequisite caster level.
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
Now i'm wondering, because Piazo screwed up the wording by using must when you don't have to, is that a MUST must or a Must OR the spellcraft dc increases by 5?
That's not a prerequisite, it's a requirement. That means you can't +5 the DC and still create it. In other words, it's exactly like the item creation feat, you can't increase the DC by 5 to make a magic item if you don't have the magic item creation feat.
No, the required caster level isn't 15. It's whichever is worse: the caster level for flaming burst or the caster level of 9 for a weapon with a +3 enhancement bonus. Since flaming burst has a requirement of CL 12, that's the prerequisite caster level.
*sigh* I wish that were the case.
Unfortunately, it's 12, unless you're level 9, in which case you can increase the DC by 5 and still do the flaming burst. Only the enhancement bonus has a hard limit on the caster level. :( I hate that caster level is not a prerequisite. :(
That's not a prerequisite, it's a requirement. That means you can't +5 the DC and still create it. In other words, it's exactly like the item creation feat, you can't increase the DC by 5 to make a magic item if you don't have the magic item creation feat.
Thanks *begins beating the development team with a thesaurus*
No, the required caster level isn't 15. It's whichever is worse: the caster level for flaming burst or the caster level of 9 for a weapon with a +3 enhancement bonus. Since flaming burst has a requirement of CL 12, that's the prerequisite caster level.*sigh* I wish that were the case.
Unfortunately, it's 12, unless you're level 9, in which case you can increase the DC by 5 and still do the flaming burst. Only the enhancement bonus has a hard limit on the caster level. :( I hate that caster level is not a prerequisite. :(
I think it would clean up so many problems as well. I also assumed (perhaps hastily) that the original poster understood the rules about bypassing prerequisites and the rules about requirements. I just didn't want to see the misinterpretation again that the effective enhancement bonus of the weapon (which, as a +3 flaming burst weapon, is +5) is the one you use.
Ok, now I’m confused again. lol
So basically the CL needed is always going to be 3x the enhancement bonus unless the magic item/ability states an actual CL requirement? (i.e. CL 12 for Flaming Burst)
Ok, now I’m confused again. lol
So basically the CL needed is always going to be 3x the enhancement bonus unless the magic item/ability states an actual CL requirement? (i.e. CL 12 for Flaming Burst)
No, apparently I was wrong (:
Unless the ability specifically states that it requires a certain level to craft (like the spell storing weapon ability), you use the enhancement bonus as the hard cap. So mdt's example of caster level 9 with a +5 to the craft DC would also work.
But if you look under Flaming Burst, the requirement says: Strong evocation; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +2 bonus.
Isn’t that the required level to cast?
Or when you say if the item states it needs a required level to craft, it is in the actual description?
But if you look under Flaming Burst, the requirement says: Strong evocation; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +2 bonus.
Isn’t that the required level to cast?
Or when you say if the item states it needs a required level to craft, it is in the actual description?
It either says it in the description (as in the spell storing property) or it's a base rule as part of the item type (weapons and armor).
For a +3 flame burst longsword, it must be at least 9th CL because of the restriction in crafting magic weapons.
For a +1 spell storing longsword, it must be at least 12th CL.
But if you look under Flaming Burst, the requirement says: Strong evocation; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +2 bonus.
Isn’t that the required level to cast?
Or when you say if the item states it needs a required level to craft, it is in the actual description?
Unfortunately, CL's are only requirements if they are specifically called out as requirements. If they are not called out, then you can ignore the CL. :(
Well this is all very confusing lol. I only wanted to know the breakdown of costs for creating magic weapons. My understanding of the rules (which is probably wrong!) is that to buy a +3 flaming burst longsword would cost 50,320gp. And to enchant a masterwork longsword to +3 flaming burst would cost 25,320gp.
Buying Weapon and then Enchanting it :
320gp : MW Weapon25,000gp : Enchanting supplies
Total : 25,320gp
Crafting Weapon and then Enchanting it :
160gp : Crafting MW Weapon
25,000gp : Enchanting Supplies
Total : 25,160gp
Enchanting the longsword implies that you already have a masterwork longsword at hand, having either crafted one yourself or procured it somehow (purchase, adventuring, or whatever).
As such, for the actual enchantment you don't need to pay the masterwork cost, because it has already been paid.
It's all in the quoted text in your post there. =)
You're adding the base price to the magic supplies cost. The magic supplies cost is how much it costs to craft the item.
The time spent to craft it is based on base price. And you don't add masterwork as +1. That's the 300gp. That's why the longsword costs 315gp instead of 15gp.
So as per your example it should read:
M/Work Longsword: 315gp
Base Price (to buy): Enhancement bonus (+3); Flaming Burst (+2). Total Enhancement bonus of +5 = 50,000gp. Plus 315gp = 50,315gp.To enchant yourself halve the base price = 25,000gp + 315gp = 25,315gp
To enchant yourself and craft the sword yourself halve the lot = 50,315 divided by 2 = 25,157gp, 5sp.
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
This is correct.
As far as CL goes, the text states "If an item has both an enhamncement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."
Therefore CL 12 (from Flaming Burst as opposed to 9 {+3 enhancement bonus *3}).
As far as CL goes, the text states "If an item has both an enhamncement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."
Therefore CL 12 (from Flaming Burst as opposed to 9 {+3 enhancement bonus *3}).
This +1.
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This +1.As far as CL goes, the text states "If an item has both an enhamncement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."
Therefore CL 12 (from Flaming Burst as opposed to 9 {+3 enhancement bonus *3}).
Stubs' post is comprehensive and correct with the exception about Caster Level. Caster Level is not a prerequisite for flaming burst quality, nor for any item unless it is specifically called out in the prereqs. This is in the errata. The 3*enhancement level is called out.
The Caster Level for the +3 sword is indeed 9. If this is a "typical" +3 flaming burst sword, it would have a Caster Level of 12, per the description. This is what would be used, for example, if using dispel magic on the sword to supress it's ability.
As for the "higher of two caster level requirements..." passage, it is possible that this has been missed in the errata, that it in reference to elements like the dispel that I have mentioned, or that this should be taken as calling out the caster level as a prerequisite in the way that the special enhancement level is called out. If the latter, I am course am wrong. :)
You're adding the base price to the magic supplies cost. The magic supplies cost is how much it costs to craft the item.
The time spent to craft it is based on base price. And you don't add masterwork as +1. That's the 300gp. That's why the longsword costs 315gp instead of 15gp.
So as per your example it should read:
M/Work Longsword: 315gp
Base Price (to buy): Enhancement bonus (+3); Flaming Burst (+2). Total Enhancement bonus of +5 = 50,000gp. Plus 315gp = 50,315gp.To enchant yourself halve the base price = 25,000gp + 315gp = 25,315gp
To enchant yourself and craft the sword yourself halve the lot = 50,315 divided by 2 = 25,157gp, 5sp.
And as a side note the creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
This is correct.
This is almost correct. As Stubs pointed out above, the cost to craft the MW weapon is 1/3 the marketprice, not 1/2. In most instances, the difference is negligible, but when using costly special materials (like adamantine), it can be significant (as can be the time required to craft it).
huh. Right you are.
Didn't see this listed yet, so:
The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
You NEED to meet the CL of weapon special abilities in order to imbue them into the weapon. This appears to be an exception, as you can normally ignore the CL listing for most other magic items.
For example, a +2 longsword could be created by a 6th-level caster, whereas a +2 vorpal longsword could only be crafted by a character with caster level 18.
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What about creating items with multiple special abilities?
Ex. a +2 flaming, shocking longbow of distance? Would it be 6 from the enhancement bonus (as the abilities are +1 each) or would you add up the abilities to 9?
+2 = CL 6
Flaming = CL 10Shock = CL 8
Distance = CL 6
Actually, because of Flaming, it is CL 10.
If not for the CLs called out by the abilities, it would be the CL 6 of the +2.
+2 = CL 6
Flaming = CL 10
Shock = CL 8
Distance = CL 6Actually, because of Flaming, it is CL 10.
If not for the CLs called out by the abilities, it would be the CL 6 of the +2.
Exactly!
All of the other CLs. Can be ignored (including the CLs for flaming and other weapon properties)
Except in the case of weapon and armor special abilities, this just isn't true. It's specifically called out in the rules that you must meet them--I've already quoted the relevant text above. But I'll repost the relevant bits for you and others:
To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the armor or the pieces of the armor to be assembled. Armor to be made into magic armor must be masterwork armor, and the masterwork cost is added to the base price to determine final market value. Additional magic supply costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic armor—half the base price of the item.
Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. Magic armor or a magic shield must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any armor or shield special abilities.
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the armor triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the armor's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
Creating some armor may entail other prerequisites beyond or other than spellcasting. See the individual descriptions for details.
Crafting magic armor requires one day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price.
Item Creation Feat Required: Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft or Craft (armor).
To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the weapon or the pieces of the weapon to be assembled. Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine final market value. Additional magic supplies costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic weapon—half the base price of the item based upon the item's total effective bonus.
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities.
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the weapon triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the weapon's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
At the time of creation, the creator must decide if the weapon glows or not as a side-effect of the magic imbued within it. This decision does not affect the price or the creation time, but once the item is finished, the decision is binding.
Creating magic double-headed weapons is treated as creating two weapons when determining cost, time, XP, and special abilities.
Creating some weapons may entail other prerequisites beyond or other than spellcasting. See the individual descriptions for details.
Crafting a magic weapon requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price.
Item Creation Feat Required: Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft, Craft (bows) (for magic bows and arrows), or Craft (weapons) (for all other weapons).
I agree with your statement as far as other items are concerned though.
what about adding in the master craftsman feat? and of course the part where they say:
"The DC to create a magic
item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not
meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation
feat, which is mandatory."
If developer forum posts are any indication, that rule does not apply to weapons, armor, and other items that specifically require a given caster level (such as bracers of armor).
It's definitely a RAW vs RAI issue.
.... okay, still confused. What I am working on creating is a:
+2 flaming, frost(ing), seeking, composite longbow (str rating +2) of distance.
I have the craft magic arms and armor feat, the master craftsman feat, 10 ranks in craft bow, and more than 100k gp. What is it going to cost to make, what do I need spell-wise, and is there anything else that I am missing?
+2 +2 (caster level 6)
+1 flaming+1 frost
+1 seeking caster level 12
+1 Distance caster level 6
You are functionally making a +6 weapon which costs 72,000 gp in the store, so you need to pay
36,000 Gp for the mats to enchant (half the market price)
300 gp for the masterwork,
200 for a +2 strength rating
100 gp for the composite longbow (i'm assuming you're not going to skimp on this part)
The DC is 5 (base)+ 12 (the highest caster level) + 20 (5X4) = 37 because you don't meet the requirements for flaming frost seeking or distance
There's a LOT of ambiguity in the rules as to whether you can drop the DC by 5 by having a friendly caster cast the spell for you while you're making it.
