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How would the affects of Unwilling Shield and Shield Other stack, assuming the person who was taking the damage was protected by both. I see three possible ways you could do this, but nothing is raw:
Option 1) Each person takes 1/3, just evenly splitting the damage.
Option 2) Damage applied in some sort of order, so Caster and Sheildy split the damage .5/.5, then the caster splits their .5 with the other sheildy for .5/.5. Leaving total damage .5/.25/.25. In this case order matters. So determining order, by spell level, caster level, order they are cast in, or arbitrary.
Option 3) Friend takes half, foe takes half, protected person takes zilch.
Any thoughts?
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Ok here goes. A Cleric and Inquisitor are fighting a fire giant. The cleric casts Shield Other on the Inquisitor, the Inquisitor casts unwilling shield on the fire giant (who fails the save).
Giant bashes Inquisitor for 30 points of damage. 15 points goes to the giant, leaving 15 points to be split by the cleric and inquisitor.
The Shield other spell comes after Unwilling shield because you split actual damage taken. So if the Inquisitor was wearing an adamantine breastplate and has DR 2/-, that 15 points becomes 13 which is then split between CLR and INQ.
--Between a Vrock & a hard place.
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I could also see them as similar effects. So, while they where both active, the more powerful one would take over while in use. As per this from the PRD:
Same Effect with Differing Results: The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
I know that they are different spells, but they do the same basic thing, to the point of Unwilling shield stating that it works like shield other, except...
So, in the above example by King of Vrock, Until the Unwilling Shield ended, damage would be divided by the inquisitor and the giant. Once that ended, you would then divide the damage between the Inquisitor and the Cleric as the Shield Other spell.
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I could also see them as similar effects. So, while they where both active, the more powerful one would take over while in use. As per this from the PRD:
Same Effect with Differing Results: The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.I know that they are different spells, but they do the same basic thing, to the point of Unwilling shield stating that it works like shield other, except...
So, in the above example by King of Vrock, Until the Unwilling Shield ended, damage would be divided by the inquisitor and the giant. Once that ended, you would then divide the damage between the Inquisitor and the Cleric as the Shield Other spell.
No way... both spells work at the same time. They may be similar but not the same. You split damage between the protected creature and the attacking creatures first, then you split the damage taken by the protected creature between itself and the allied caster.
This situation is similar to how energy protection, resistances, and saves interact. You use the order most favorable to the PC. Remember the PC's are the star of the game, the design philosophy is that they're supposed to win.
--Vrock Salt
Let's look at the wordings of the spells
...You take only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage...
...the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage.
Ok they have the same wording, so therefore are the same effect.
Same effects you then use the higher level spell.
Therefore you first use Unwilling Shield, when it is no longer able to split the wounds you would then use the shield other spell.
To allow both to work would be just like saying two or more shield others should work. Which they do not, the last one cast is used.
Let's look at the wordings of the spells
...You take only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage......the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage.Ok they have the same wording, so therefore are the same effect.
Same effects you then use the higher level spell.
Therefore you first use Unwilling Shield, when it is no longer able to split the wounds you would then use the shield other spell.
To allow both to work would be just like saying two or more shield others should work. Which they do not, the last one cast is used.
No way are they the same. They're two different spells, from two different schools, castable by a different array of casters. There is no logical reason that they should be restricted for having similar effects - no more so than a +1 deflection bonus to AC restricted by a +1 natural armor bonus, or a +1 enhancement bonus, or a +1 luck bonus, etc. At best, they are unnamed effects that stack. At worst, they are a necromantic effect and an abjuration effect - that stack.
I believe they are similar effects.
What we need is some developer input.
Everybody hit the faq button on the orignal post so we can get some help from the big boys clearing this one up.
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As far as I can tell the primary always takes half damage.
"Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. "
It says he takes half damage from all wounds, if he has this cast twice he still takes... half damage. It doesn't say it reduces his damage by 50%.
So if you cast shield other twice he still takes half damage, you can choose whether the two others share in the damage or if the second spell supersedes the first, it doesn't really matter.
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As far as I can tell the primary always takes half damage.
"Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. "
It says he takes half damage from all wounds, if he has this cast twice he still takes... half damage. It doesn't say it reduces his damage by 50%.
So if you cast shield other twice he still takes half damage, you can choose whether the two others share in the damage or if the second spell supersedes the first, it doesn't really matter.
We're not talking about two Shield Others or two Unwilling Shields, we're talking one of each.
You take half damage from an attack the other half goes to the enemy, the half you take is then split between you and your ally. It's a perfectly reasonable spell combo.
--Vrock Blocked
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But the target still takes half damage from the attack, unwilling shield doesn't reduce the amount of damage from the attack.
Essentially because the way it's worded shield other doesn't stack with anything because the amount of damage the shielded person takes is based on how much damage the attack dealt. Since Unwilling Shield uses the same mechanism it works the same.
Interesting point Ogre.
Therefore if someone has shield other on them, and then casts unwilling shield on the bad guy. When the bad guy strikes the PC the bad guy takes half, the PC takes half, and then cleric that cast the shield other takes half as well!