Hi guys.
I have a question about Pyrotechnics: a friend of mine says that since the spell says that it uses a fire source, you if you don't have a fire in the precise spot where you want to usa the effect, you cannot use the spell in that spot. Thus, he said, if you have a torch in your hand and you want to cast Pyrotechnics you have to generates it from the torch, so you have to cast it with you (and your party) in the area effect. It's correct? That is, I must have a fire in the point where I want the origin of the effect, or I can somehow "throw" a fire in my hand ina a long range?
It must originate in a fire.
Hi guys.
I have a question about Pyrotechnics: a friend of mine says that since the spell says that it uses a fire source, you if you don't have a fire in the precise spot where you want to usa the effect, you cannot use the spell in that spot. Thus, he said, if you have a torch in your hand and you want to cast Pyrotechnics you have to generates it from the torch, so you have to cast it with you (and your party) in the area effect. It's correct? That is, I must have a fire in the point where I want the origin of the effect, or I can somehow "throw" a fire in my hand ina a long range?
Nope. it has to be a fire in range. There's a few ways to get around that, if the other person has a torch, or for a nice combo cast flaming sphere and roll it out towards your enemies, then use it for pyrotechnics. The sphere won't be expended because its technically a magical fire.
Nope. it has to be a fire in range. There's a few ways to get around that, if the other person has a torch, or for a nice combo cast flaming sphere and roll it out towards your enemies, then use it for pyrotechnics. The sphere won't be expended because its technically a magical fire.
So it's basically a useless spell...
It's a spell with situational usefulness.
Attacking the bandits around their campfire? Great spell.
Exploring a dungeon where everyone but you has darkvision? Not so good.
Invading a temple lit by torch light? Great spell.
The party sorcerer likes to throw around fire effects with a duration? Great spell.
It's not the fire spell that the sorcerer takes as his only direct damage spell and uses whenever direct damage is needed. But it is also not useless. However, like many situational spells, the GM has a fair amount of control over how useful it is.
So it's basically a useless spell...
It's the second piece of a two-piece combination (Person A fires a flaming arrow or summons a fire elemental or whatever, Person B casts Pyrotechnics).
So it's basically a useless spell...It's basically a spell that would be too powerful for second level without the situational modifier.
Uhm... It have a fort/will negates save, and it's basically a 2nd level spell.. 12+int modifier. I don't think that the situational modifier is necessary.
Uhm... It have a fort/will negates save, and it's basically a 2nd level spell.. 12+int modifier. I don't think that the situational modifier is necessary.
Compare the spell Blindness (one target, save negates) with the blindness version of Pyrotechnics (all targets within 120' [!], save negates). Of course, Pyrotechnics doesn't last as long, but generally 3 or 4 rounds is all you need to mess up an encounter.
How can I use it without blind all my party? Like, you see, we're going in a closed space, and I would like to use the pyro's on the flaming sphere of the sorcerer... but we can't cast it miles away from the room we're going to raid. There's a way like, don't know... close my eyes when I cast it?
How can I use it without blind all my party? Like, you see, we're going in a closed space, and I would like to use the pyro's on the flaming sphere of the sorcerer... but we can't cast it miles away from the room we're going to raid. There's a way like, don't know... close my eyes when I cast it?
Your loophole lies in this line in the spell: These creatures must have line of sight to the fire to be affected.
Simply make sure there's no line of sight. This can be achieved through a mere Obscuring Mist for your party.
And i'm sure the DM will allow you (the caster) to close your eyes at the moment of the flash as you'll know when it occurs.
Your loophole lies in this line in the spell: These creatures must have line of sight to the fire to be affected.Simply make sure there's no line of sight. This can be achieved through a mere Obscuring Mist for your party.
Hmmm. Interesting. I still need the line of effect, right?
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This is a spell I really like but have never been able to use. I feel there are too many problems with it too be useful.
I've been told I can't close my eyes just before I cast so if I'm using the flash version then I need to be quite far away.
I've been told I can't use a flaming arrow as they apparently extinguish themselves on a hit unless it hits a combustible.
Delaying it to work simultaneously with a spell like fireball means both the other caster and I need our eyes open.
I've been told the fog effect only works on things that actually breath. So no using it on undead.
I really like the spell and despite nearly being 8th level have never used it.
It's a great distraction spell. We used the fireworks function on a candelabra followed by the smoke version on the fireplace to make the garrison of a fort think the keep was on fire while we made our escape.
Later on our Paladin was surrounded by baddies, again. The enemy Sorcerer dropped a flaming sphere on the Paladin's space figuring he would not need to move it as the Paladin was surrounded. I dropped the smoke version of Pyrotechnics on the Sphere. This not only quenched the Sphere it also generated a cloud the baddies darkvision could not see through. The Paladin had blind-fighting. Afterwards the other players described the cloud as a large CENSORED sign with occasional bloody scraps flying past.
It's even useful for player control. In a one shot we had a player who was there to fight. A true Hack and Slasher of the old blood. Thanks to this player an information gathering mission in a bar looked about to degenerate into a brawl that would have eaten most of the gaming time for the night. One burst of smoke on the tavern's hearth clears the room and saves the night for the other players. It also let us to reach the real fight of the night so even the Sir H&S was happy.
So yeah I like Pyrotechnics
~will
Here's an interesting point: the fire source is listed as the material component of Pyrotechnics.
I can't see any reason why Eschew Materials shouldn't allow you to cast this spell wherever you want without a fire source, given that, although it seems out of theme for the spell.
This not only quenched the Sphere
A small thing here.. pyrotechnics doesn't quench magical fires like a flaming sphere.
I've used it a decent number of times with a warmage PC I used to play.
-James
Doublecheck the decsription of Sphere: "It can be extinguished by any means that would put out a normal fire of its size."
Pyrotechnics does not quench magical fires but Flaming Sphere is treated as a normal fire for purposes of being extinguished. At least that's how I read that but either way is cool. Still a fun spell.
Back in AD&D the spell was listed as extinguishing any fire used as a source with no size limit mentioned and the area of effect being dependant on the size of the source fire. A player back in the day used it on a 10mile wide prairie fire. We figured the light show was visible from orbit.
~will
Hmmm. Interesting. I still need the line of effect, right?
Your loophole lies in this line in the spell: These creatures must have line of sight to the fire to be affected.Simply make sure there's no line of sight. This can be achieved through a mere Obscuring Mist for your party.
Yeah, to cast the spell you need line of sight and effect. But like i said the DM should be reasonable and allow you to close your eyes. Just protect the rest of the party from line of sight to the flash.
You can't close your eyes for this. You need to be able to see the target of the spell as you cast, which is the fire source.
PoorWanderingOne: Awesome. Awesome to the max.
As for Pyrotechnics extinguishing Flaming Sphere, yes it can be extinguished easily, but the smoke would only extinguish the fire if it was thick enough to exhaust all of the oxygen surrounding it, which is debatable.
You can't close your eyes for this. You need to be able to see the target of the spell as you cast, which is the fire source.
That's certainly a valid interpretation and you couldn't hold it against a DM that rules it as such.
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Here's an interesting point: the fire source is listed as the material component of Pyrotechnics.
I can't see any reason why Eschew Materials shouldn't allow you to cast this spell wherever you want without a fire source, given that, although it seems out of theme for the spell.
Heh. Pyrotechnics presents a series of DM and player challenges. Some interesting rules challenges, it is circumstantial and oversized.
DM decisions/planning:
Is the fire source a material component costing less than 1GP?
Does it extinguish a flaming sphere? There is a rules conflict.
Can you close your eyes or otherwise avoid the blinding effect when casting?
What do you do when the mage casts this in a crowd/army or a town and gets dozens or more in the blast? (to avoid spending all session adjudicating the outcome)
Player:
The spell areas is actually too big. Where can you cast it safely? It seems like an outdoors spell.
It is mostly a first strike battlefield control spell so having to cast a flaming sphere spell first sort of ruins it. And flaming sphere limits the range anyway.
I can only see this being cast against a specific prepared target or off a bonded item.
The smoke option is more manageable sized. A -4 untyped penalty to strength and dex is pretty nasty, especially since there's no caveat on it that it won't drop a strength below 1 is pretty nasty.
The smoke option is more manageable sized. A -4 untyped penalty to strength and dex is pretty nasty, especially since there's no caveat on it that it won't drop a strength below 1 is pretty nasty.
I have found the nasty bit of the smoke option is that it is a darkness that blocks darkvision and the devils see in darkness ability. It's fun to turn the tables on the dammed darkvision using baddies once in a while.
~will
Here's an interesting point: the fire source is listed as the material component of Pyrotechnics.
I can't see any reason why Eschew Materials shouldn't allow you to cast this spell wherever you want without a fire source, given that, although it seems out of theme for the spell.
Heh. Pyrotechnics presents a series of DM and player challenges. Some interesting rules challenges, it is circumstantial and oversized.
DM decisions/planning:
Is the fire source a material component costing less than 1GP?
Does it extinguish a flaming sphere? There is a rules conflict.
Can you close your eyes or otherwise avoid the blinding effect when casting?
What do you do when the mage casts this in a crowd/army or a town and gets dozens or more in the blast? (to avoid spending all session adjudicating the outcome)Player:
The spell areas is actually too big. Where can you cast it safely? It seems like an outdoors spell.
It is mostly a first strike battlefield control spell so having to cast a flaming sphere spell first sort of ruins it. And flaming sphere limits the range anyway.
I can only see this being cast against a specific prepared target or off a bonded item.
I have found it's helpful to have your hasted familiar brop a vial of alchemist fire where you want the spell to go off. The familiar will be in the blast radius but if you use a bat the blindsense is not effected so no harm no foul.
~will
One of my players who had just leveled up used Pyrotechnics last session for the first time. He had his familiar fly out and drop an Alchemist's Fire flask for the fire, then he cast the spell. The party had pre-arranged a code word for when the spell was going to go off to close their eyes. It wreaked havoc on my bad guys.
To be honest, he caught me by surprise with this one. I've already ruled that next time the other members of the party are going to have to make perception checks (with big penalties if they are in combat) to hear him calling out the word in time. I'm also considering allowing solid objects (like a wagon) that block line of sight negate the effects. But is letting his familiar deliver the flask and having him be able to cast the spell in a single around giving him too much power? I know there's other ways around this (creatures with blindsense, undead, etc) but I don't want to penalize him too much for a pretty good idea (although he's already got a 20 INT so the save is 17, pretty tough for CR 4 and 5 monsters). Thoughts?