I would consider this within the range of death effects that the terrasque can recover from. It clearly wasnt intended that this spell be able to bypass that. Now if you could cast this continuously and keep the terrasque failing the saves you could possibly keep it down, but thats true of alot of disabling spells. But you would have to do something about it's +31 fort save first.
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So, this is only a problem .0125% of the time? The terrasque has to roll a 1 3 turns in a row to die. Even if you manage to hop the spell level up to 9, you would need a 36 in your caster stat to make the Terrasque require anything but a 1. Now while that isn't impossible, the highest stat I've seen possible is 40 (18 base +2 racial, +5 level, +5 book, +4 from a template +6 headband) although I suppose you might be able to get more if you added a few more templates (+8 probably) but then things are getting a little too silly.
Actually this is also countered by the Terrasque's own regeneration rules, it states that if something kills it out right, it gets back up 3 rounds later with 1hp.
I think the easiest way to deal with the tarrasque is to lure out onto a boat and then sink it. It doesn't appear to have any swimming skill or water breathing, so if you tossed it into a rip tide, you could be rid of it, the krakens could have a continually regenerating lunch buffet.
In my view the specific rules of regeneration supersedes the general one. And though you would keep the tarrasque at bay while suffocating, once he is dead (which is an effect, I guess), he comes back to life withing 3 rounds.
However, when you get him at negative hitpoints due to suffocation, without killing him, he can't use regeneration for healing it off, so he has to relie on normal healing, which takes longer. This is probably the best way to defend yourself against the tarrasque.
Other than that, if you want to kill him, try throwing him into a star, a place where regeneration will only get him killed again and again. Or just put him into a pocket universe and throw the key away. And if you really want to kill him for good, you probably need to create a scenaria where a god wants him dead.
Even if you manage to hop the spell level up to 9, you would need a 36 in your caster stat to make the Terrasque require anything but a 1. Now while that isn't impossible, the highest stat I've seen possible is 40 (18 base +2 racial, +5 level, +5 book, +4 from a template +6 headband) although I suppose you might be able to get more if you added a few more templates (+8 probably) but then things are getting a little too silly.
Hey, don't forget you could spend several feats improving your spell DCs.
I will admit, it would be a silly thing to optimize for though.
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The answer to your question is no. Even if you somehow manage to get the tarrasque to fail its fort save 3 times in a row this will not work. It is immune to anything that as an effect would kill it.
You are going to have to go back to the old standard if you want to do it right.
Step 1: Wish that your next spell to affect it cannot be saved against/resisted.
Step 2: Wish away its regeneration ability.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.
Why is everybody always picking on me???
Let me state, unequivocally, that I can indeed regenerate from suffocation. I know it for a fact since Mrs. Tarrasque and I, uh, well, nevermind.
I cannot be killed by mundanities. Even should I die from such silliness, I'll be up and back at you with a vengeance so fast they'll have to rededicate Easter after ME instead of that other guy who took a day and a half to get back up.
Step 1: Wish that your next spell to affect it cannot be saved against/resisted.
Step 2: Wish away its regeneration ability.
What tomfoolery is this?
Silly mortal, in order for your second wish to ignore my saves and resistances, your first wish must penetrate my saves and resistances to counteract them.
Either way, I get to resist one of those wishes, so why spend two wishes to get one effect that I might resist anyway?
Well, I guess it's your money...
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Step 1: Wish that your next spell to affect it cannot be saved against/resisted.
Step 2: Wish away its regeneration ability.
What tomfoolery is this?
Silly mortal, in order for your second wish to ignore my saves and resistances, your first wish must penetrate my saves and resistances to counteract them.
Either way, I get to resist one of those wishes, so why spend two wishes to get one effect that I might resist anyway?
Well, I guess it's your money...
Well...let's be honest by the time they are high enough level to properly challenge you in the first, they won't even be on the ground, most of them will have some manner of throwing peas at you until you keel over. Though a better use of two wish spells would be to first wish that their next wish won't fail and their second wish would put you into the sun, thereby never having to worry about it again.
Well...let's be honest by the time they are high enough level to properly challenge you in the first, they won't even be on the ground, most of them will have some manner of throwing peas at you until you keel over. Though a better use of two wish spells would be to first wish that their next wish won't fail and their second wish would put you into the sun, thereby never having to worry about it again.Step 1: Wish that your next spell to affect it cannot be saved against/resisted.
Step 2: Wish away its regeneration ability.
What tomfoolery is this?
Silly mortal, in order for your second wish to ignore my saves and resistances, your first wish must penetrate my saves and resistances to counteract them.
Either way, I get to resist one of those wishes, so why spend two wishes to get one effect that I might resist anyway?
Well, I guess it's your money...
Bah, let them fly and shoot. I shoot back. And I haven't met a flier yet that didn't understimate the leaping awesomeness that is Air-Tarrasque! I am able to leap tall castles in a single bound, gulping down flying archers by the armored-mouthful. Let em fly around in my massive armored gullet.
And again I say poppycock for using one wish to make the next wish fail-proof because that just means I get to resist the first wish. You're still just paying double to attempt one wish against me and give me one chance to resist.
Sun? Phooey, just a day at the beach.
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Right, but while you are in the middle of the sun, I'll be safe and at home enjoying my retirement, because I just beat the Terrasque, which makes me the hero of the lands, even if I have to do something morally ambiguous like letting it roam the country-side so I can really build up my reputation. The absolute best way to deal with a Terrasque probably is to Time Stop then cast 3 Wishes putting it into the sun. Though you can't really resist the Wish to make my next Wish automatically succeed, it doesn't affect you. That's like saying you can resist my Freedom spell so you can grapple me, it doesn't work that way Tim.
Wish the whole planet somewhere else, like the far side of the sun, except that chunk currently holding the tarrasque. Mr. tarrasque gets no save or resistance because the spell isn't affecting him, and the rest of the world has realized its in its best interest to not resist the wish.
The tarrasque is now stranded on an asteroid, abandoned.
Oh, and you wish for the moon to come with you too, so the tarrasque can't just jump to it.
Goodbye, tarrasque. Enjoy your personal asteroid.
Wish the whole planet somewhere else, like the far side of the sun, except that chunk currently holding the tarrasque. Mr. tarrasque gets no save or resistance because the spell isn't affecting him, and the rest of the world has realized its in its best interest to not resist the wish.
The tarrasque is now stranded on an asteroid, abandoned.
Oh, and you wish for the moon to come with you too, so the tarrasque can't just jump to it.
Goodbye, tarrasque. Enjoy your personal asteroid.
Right cuz there are no concequences to wishing a planet to a new location suddenly...No one even spills a martini right?
Wish the whole planet somewhere else, like the far side of the sun, except that chunk currently holding the tarrasque.
This would be an example of the cure being worse than the disease. Good thinking out of the box, though.
Zo
While suffocation takes time, the effect is "instant death" because it ignores hitpoint damage.
That's what is meant by the regeneration rules. If it dies, even by non-hitpoint damage, it comes back to life. It is "Super" Regeneration.
Wish the whole planet somewhere else, like the far side of the sun, except that chunk currently holding the tarrasque.This would be an example of the cure being worse than the disease. Good thinking out of the box, though.
Zo
Yea my group has an unwritten rule with wishes, be very very careful what you wish for.
I have never had a character make a wish that didnt start 'I wish nothing in existance to change except..."
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"If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains."
Yes, suffocation is three saves but it's pretty clear the third save is the fatal one.
The other part is this clause:
It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.
Are you as the GM comfortable with the idea that suffocation is the magic bullet that truly kills big T? Seems kind of weak to me.
It would render him out of the fight for three rounds if you got super super lucky but otherwise no. It might be a good way to disable him while you figure a way to transport him into your worst enemies back yard.
As for just regenerating instantly:
"If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains."Suffocation is a effect that takes several rounds, and allows several saves. It hardly kills instantly, unlike "Power Word, Kill", for example.
I am well aware of RAI here, and would be inclined to let it rise from death as well. But purely RAW, suffocate should not qualify for that passage, which is the whole basis for my question here-?
Suffocation is still an instant-kill. Sure, it takes a few rounds and a few failed saves before the instant-kill happens, but it is still an instant-kill effect.
This is because it doesn't do damage.
There are really only three ways to kill something with our current game mechanics:
1. Dish out damage until the target runs out of HP.
2. Dish out CON damage until the target runs out of Constitution.
3. Do some other non-damaging effect to instantly kill the target.
Suffocation is the latter. Yes, it's slow compared to most other instant-kill methods, but it is instant nonetheless: one instant the victim is alive (albeit turning cyanotic blue from lack of air), then the next instant the victim is dead, even with all his HP still intact.
Instant death.
Wish the whole planet somewhere else, like the far side of the sun,
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Just how powerful do you think the Wish spell is?
It can't even replicate a different 9th level spell (let alone the caveats for non-wizard/sorcerer spells or schools of opposition). What makes you think you can use it to do something as crazy as displace an entire planet along it's orbit?
I know it's an open ended spell, but really...
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Now.. in all seriousness. What about a sphere of annihilation? Considering it states: "Only the direct intervention of a deity can restore an annihilated character."
Or is this a futile exercise in Unstoppable Force vs Immovable Object theories?
I can see a neat high level campaign based around a sphere of annihilation sitting where a tarrasque "was" (is!). So when someone moves it to use it for <insert reason here>, 3 rounds later a tarrasque comes back into existence... and is quite upset.
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Wish the whole planet somewhere else, like the far side of the sun, except that chunk currently holding the tarrasque. Mr. tarrasque gets no save or resistance because the spell isn't affecting him, and the rest of the world has realized its in its best interest to not resist the wish.
The tarrasque is now stranded on an asteroid, abandoned.
Oh, and you wish for the moon to come with you too, so the tarrasque can't just jump to it.
Goodbye, tarrasque. Enjoy your personal asteroid.
So 2 years later the planet crashes into an asteroid causing massive destruction and in the chaos of that event the tarrasque rises again...
When players wish for stuff beyond the clearly defined stuff GMs get creative.
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Now.. in all seriousness. What about a sphere of annihilation? Considering it states: "Only the direct intervention of a deity can restore an annihilated character."
Maybe that's the one way to destroy him.
Could be an interesting adventure, getting and handling the sphere would be pretty dangerous by itself.
I got wished into the Abyss once. I ran around eating demons and demon lords until a demon prince went on a planar jaunt to fetch back an efreet and paid the efreet to wish me back home.
I even brought home a few demon hors d'ouvres for Mrs. Tarrasque.
spread the rumor that the tarrasque insulted some gods mommy, Nethys would work fine as he once was human.
He certainly knows ho to handle the the tarrasque. Also a wish for the knowledge how to kill the tarrasque might work. *starts to wish very hard*
And you still forget with your "wish into the sun", that there is a 1/20 chance that it works, or am I missing something?
And yes DM_Blake, even if the sun is a day at the beach, you can't fly in space, you can't run away from the sun, and the sun & space doesn't contain air, you'll suffocate to death every 20 seconds for the rest of your existence ...
which brings me to my last point, you are a magical beast, means you can die of old age I guess, so: wish youself back to second edition, and hast him to death ^^ , nah, but you might be able to use this to your advance, altough I can't think of something right now
Wish the whole planet somewhere else, like the far side of the sun, except that chunk currently holding the tarrasque. Mr. tarrasque gets no save or resistance because the spell isn't affecting him, and the rest of the world has realized its in its best interest to not resist the wish.
The tarrasque is now stranded on an asteroid, abandoned.
Oh, and you wish for the moon to come with you too, so the tarrasque can't just jump to it.
Goodbye, tarrasque. Enjoy your personal asteroid.
So 2 years later the planet crashes into an asteroid causing massive destruction and in the chaos of that event the tarrasque rises again...
When players wish for stuff beyond the clearly defined stuff GMs get creative.
Ask the surviving astrologers to explain this thing called "astrophysics" and word the next wish such that the chunk with the tarrasque will be on a different trajectory.
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spread the rumor that the tarrasque insulted some gods mommy, Nethys would work fine as he once was human.
He certainly knows ho to handle the the tarrasque. Also a wish for the knowledge how to kill the tarrasque might work. *starts to wish very hard*And you still forget with your "wish into the sun", that there is a 1/20 chance that it works, or am I missing something?
And yes DM_Blake, even if the sun is a day at the beach, you can't fly in space, you can't run away from the sun, and the sun & space doesn't contain air, you'll suffocate to death every 20 seconds for the rest of your existence ...which brings me to my last point, you are a magical beast, means you can die of old age I guess, so: wish youself back to second edition, and hast him to death ^^ , nah, but you might be able to use this to your advance, altough I can't think of something right now
Nah, you must be thinking of another edition Tarrasque, they are immune to cones, lines, rays, and magic missile spells, they also have a 30%chance to reflect those spells at the caster. Otherwise they are just as vulnerable to such shenanigans as one would expect of a Dai Kaiju.
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Ask the surviving astrologers to explain this thing called "astrophysics" and word the next wish such that the chunk with the tarrasque will be on a different trajectory.
The point is... you have no clue what is going to happen with a wish spell if you go outside what's explicit in the spell description.
I have never had a character make a wish that didnt start 'I wish nothing in existance to change except..."
LOL, doesn't that just beg for things *not* in existence to change? Nobody knows what the future holds...
Zo
Ask the surviving astrologers to explain this thing called "astrophysics" and word the next wish such that the chunk with the tarrasque will be on a different trajectory.The point is... you have no clue what is going to happen with a wish spell if you go outside what's explicit in the spell description.
So what you're saying is, wishing beyond the explicit spell description means "Entire kingdom eaten by tarrasque or Door Number 2"?
I'll take Door Number 2, Monty!
The wish spell says this:
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment, at the GM's discretion.)
So with regards to teleporting an entire planet... it moves a micron if the GM is being nice (basically, fails completely). Or, if the GM wants to be mean, it teleports only YOU alone, killing you if you can't exist in space, but otherwise writing you out of the game.
You can't just wish for whatever you want with impunity. Otherwise, what's the point of having those limitations?
Silly, I can't eat an entire kingdom! My belly isn't that big.
Besides, after a province or three I get so very, very sleepy...
So with regards to teleporting an entire planet... it moves a micron if the GM is being nice (basically, fails completely). Or, if the GM wants to be mean, it teleports only YOU alone, killing you if you can't exist in space, but otherwise writing you out of the game.
If that kind of wish were to be granted at all, the obvious GM 'careful what you wish for' would just be to move the planet as requested. No strings attached - just transport the entire planet, minus that one chunk, to the new location - leaving the atmosphere behind.
The funny part? Big T is in the best position to not suffocate to death.
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Silly, I can't eat an entire kingdom! My belly isn't that big.
Besides, after a province or three I get so very, very sleepy...
I believe he was thinking in the long term, after your nap you will begin eating provinces until there eventually isn't a kingdom anymore, or until some jerk with the right mind set and set of abilities or contacts comes along and deals with you, in a probably temporary, but hopefully permanent, manner.
I believe he was thinking in the long term, after your nap you will begin eating provinces until there eventually isn't a kingdom anymore, or until some jerk with the right mind set and set of abilities or contacts comes along and deals with you, in a probably temporary, but hopefully permanent, manner.Silly, I can't eat an entire kingdom! My belly isn't that big.
Besides, after a province or three I get so very, very sleepy...
Perhaps.
But I take very long naps. Very very long. During which time your mortal kingdoms rise and fall. Odds are, by the time I wake up hungry again, any provinces I might eat will belong to a totally different kingdom because some mortal warlord congquered the old kingdom, enslaved the populace, and build himself a new kingdom - that eventually fell into ruin and some other warlord moved in and built himself a new kingdom - that was overrun by orc hoards who set up an orc kingdom - that was destroyed by human armies and a new kingdom founded...
In any case, his bones will be dust before he has to wrory about me waking up and eating the provinces he cares about.
I think the easiest way to deal with the tarrasque is to lure out onto a boat and then sink it. It doesn't appear to have any swimming skill or water breathing, so if you tossed it into a rip tide, you could be rid of it, the krakens could have a continually regenerating lunch buffet.
This and the asteroid idea. Much fun.
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Perhaps.
But I take very long naps. Very very long. During which time your mortal kingdoms rise and fall. Odds are, by the time I wake up hungry again, any provinces I might eat will belong to a totally different kingdom because some mortal warlord congquered the old kingdom, enslaved the populace, and build himself a new kingdom - that eventually fell into ruin and some other warlord moved in and built himself a new kingdom - that was overrun by orc hoards who set up an orc kingdom - that was destroyed by human armies and a new kingdom founded...
In any case, his bones will be dust before he has to wrory about me waking up and eating the provinces he cares about.
Unless some really big jerk comes along and wakes you up again, or the other guy is immortal.
So, this is only a problem .0125% of the time? The terrasque has to roll a 1 3 turns in a row to die. Even if you manage to hop the spell level up to 9, you would need a 36 in your caster stat to make the Terrasque require anything but a 1. Now while that isn't impossible, the highest stat I've seen possible is 40 (18 base +2 racial, +5 level, +5 book, +4 from a template +6 headband) although I suppose you might be able to get more if you added a few more templates (+8 probably) but then things are getting a little too silly.
Actually this is also countered by the Terrasque's own regeneration rules, it states that if something kills it out right, it gets back up 3 rounds later with 1hp.
Highest Charisma score possible for a human sorcerer is...
18 base
06 headband
05 levels
05 tome
03 age
02 race
02 lich template
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41 TOTAL CHARISMA
Suffocate's DC can get ridiculously high too...
15 above charisma score
10 base
10 heightened suffocate with Magical Lineage trait
04 spell focus/greater spell focus with spell perfection
02 Arcane bloodline's school power
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41 TOTAL DC
Spell Resistance isn't too hard either...
20 levels
08 spell penetration/greater spell penetration/spell perfection
02 Elven Magic (if an elf)
01 orange ioun stone
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31 TOTAL CASTER LEVEL TO BEAT SR
I'm sure these numbers can get higher, but this is how far I've been able to get with the standard races.
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So, this is only a problem .0125% of the time? The terrasque has to roll a 1 3 turns in a row to die. Even if you manage to hop the spell level up to 9, you would need a 36 in your caster stat to make the Terrasque require anything but a 1. Now while that isn't impossible, the highest stat I've seen possible is 40 (18 base +2 racial, +5 level, +5 book, +4 from a template +6 headband) although I suppose you might be able to get more if you added a few more templates (+8 probably) but then things are getting a little too silly.
Actually this is also countered by the Terrasque's own regeneration rules, it states that if something kills it out right, it gets back up 3 rounds later with 1hp.
Highest Charisma score possible for a human sorcerer is...
18 base
05 levels
06 headband
05 tome
03 age
02 race
02 lich template
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41 TOTAL CHARISMASuffocate's DC can get ridiculously high too...
15 above charisma score
10 base
10 heightened suffocate with Magical Lineage trait
04 spell focus/greater spell focus with spell perfection
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39 TOTAL DCSpell Resistance isn't too hard either...
20 levels
08 spell penetration/greater spell penetration/spell perfection
02 Elven Magic (if an elf)
01 orange ioun stone
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31 TOTAL CASTER LEVEL TO BEAT SRI'm sure these numbers can get higher, but this is how far I've been able to get with the standard races.
Use the Half-Celestial or Half-Fiend templates, you'll get +4 instead of +2
I always had the idea that regeneration has to have a "core", a place from where the rest regenerates.
To find this core, you cut the tarrasque in the middle and see which half regenerates, then on that half you repeat this process enough times. Now you cut out this core, and put it in a very well closed box. Like enlarge spells, he shouldn't be able to regenerate out of the box.
and another Idea, and with this I'm pretty very sure that it works:
let him touch a sphere of annihilation, "Only the
direct intervention of a deity can restore an annihilated character."
Supposing the tarrasque is a character (why not?), he can't regenerate himself, because his regeneration power is surely less powerful then the direct intervention of a deity.
So, what do you think folks?
Use the Half-Celestial or Half-Fiend templates, you'll get +4 instead of +2
I was keeping to the core races, with the exception of lich, which can be acquired by any spellcaster through simple adventuring and item crafting. To my knowledge, you cannot gain the half-celestial/fiend template. You have to be born with it, which means it will require a lenient GM.
I figured I would just post the things that were reasonable obtainable.
If you could be a half-c/f, why not just be a unicorn or something else that gets even more insane bonuses to your spellcasting stat?
I think the easiest way to deal with the tarrasque is to lure out onto a boat and then sink it. It doesn't appear to have any swimming skill or water breathing, so if you tossed it into a rip tide, you could be rid of it, the krakens could have a continually regenerating lunch buffet.This and the asteroid idea. Much fun.
Lure me out onto a boat? What boat? The USS Enterprise?
Lure me? Appernetly I eat whole kingdoms, so what will you bait your aircraft carrier with to make me want to get out onto it?
Back to the drawing board.
I think the easiest way to deal with the tarrasque is to lure out onto a boat and then sink it. It doesn't appear to have any swimming skill or water breathing, so if you tossed it into a rip tide, you could be rid of it, the krakens could have a continually regenerating lunch buffet.This and the asteroid idea. Much fun.Lure me out onto a boat? What boat? The USS Enterprise?
Lure me? Appernetly I eat whole kingdoms, so what will you bait your aircraft carrier with to make me want to get out onto it?
Back to the drawing board.
Ice cream. Lots and lots of ice cream. Maybe even some pie.
Don't tell me you'd skip dessert.
I always had the idea that regeneration has to have a "core", a place from where the rest regenerates.
To find this core, you cut the tarrasque in the middle and see which half regenerates, then on that half you repeat this process enough times. Now you cut out this core, and put it in a very well closed box. Like enlarge spells, he shouldn't be able to regenerate out of the box.
Cut me up? Repeatedly? You, sir, are very mean. What did I ever do to you?
However, you forget that even my 'core' is heavily armored. You do not have a box that my regenerating armored core cannot burst asunder for no such box exists. That's assuming I would stand around and let you vivisect me into such small bits in the first place.
I think the easiest way to deal with the tarrasque is to lure out onto a boat and then sink it. It doesn't appear to have any swimming skill or water breathing, so if you tossed it into a rip tide, you could be rid of it, the krakens could have a continually regenerating lunch buffet.
The guy's got a Swim check of +15 from his Strength score. That means that even in stormy water, he treads water 20% of the time and successfully swims forward the other 80%, never sinking. How are you expecting to sink him?
Ice cream. Lots and lots of ice cream. Maybe even some pie.
Don't tell me you'd skip dessert.
Mmmmmm, that does sound scrumptious. Pie a la mode, with a halfling on top I hope.
I think the easiest way to deal with the tarrasque is to lure out onto a boat and then sink it. It doesn't appear to have any swimming skill or water breathing, so if you tossed it into a rip tide, you could be rid of it, the krakens could have a continually regenerating lunch buffet.The guy's got a Swim check of +15 from his Strength score. That means that even in stormy water, he treads water 20% of the time and successfully swims forward the other 80%, never sinking. How are you expecting to sink him?
Hush you!
I was about to get a literal boatl-load of pie a la mode!
Now you've ruined it...