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I've come from my shadows, lurking, to the light to post a few questions here. Thanks in advance for your time.
1) Does an extract that is inert due to not being in an alchemist possesion have a magic aura? It can't do anything and its siphoned off part of your magic aura (according to the flavour text) so... not sure.
2) If the Alchemist cannot make extracts with focus components - why are spells like Fly on their Formulae list? So they can use Wands of Flying?
3) Does Item Creation via the Brew Potion bonus feat work the same as it would for a normal caster? Can Alchemists ignore the pre-req of needing the extract on their list by raising the DC by +5?
4) Mutagens make a mention that other alchemists can use them. Does this apply to things such as bombs and/or extracts? If Alchemist 1 makes it - can Alchemist 2 use it?
5) Does Deflect/Snatch Arrows work on bombs? If so, snatching the bomb makes it inert correct?
With that done - I think the Alchemist is a nice and interesting class though with some confusion on wordings in there and I don't believe I've ever read the word inert as much anywhere. Also, it could really use some formatting help to make it easier to read.
Thanks for your time,
Coboney
3) Does Item Creation via the Brew Potion bonus feat work the same as it would for a normal caster? Can Alchemists ignore the pre-req of needing the extract on their list by raising the DC by +5?
Yes. Normally, Alchemist's can't cast spells at all. The Brew Potion class ability allows the to brew any potion in their book as if they cast the spell, they don't even need to prepare an extract, (as a wizard would have to prepare and cast a spell)
4) Mutagens make a mention that other alchemists can use them. Does this apply to things such as bombs and/or extracts? If Alchemist 1 makes it - can Alchemist 2 use it?
No. Only mutagens have that exceptions.
5) Does Deflect/Snatch Arrows work on bombs? If so, snatching the bomb makes it inert correct?
Correct.
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Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus.
I'm kind of on the fence on this one. They are a supernatural ability but they are also quite clearly considered weapons. Bombs are also unstable and designed to explode quite easily. I'd probably delve into house rules here and make the monk make a reflex save versus to bomb's DC to avoid it exploding. The monk wouldn't be able to throw it back since it would become inert. With deflect they would almost certainly explode.
An alchemist’s bomb, like an extract, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else.
Seems pretty clearly limited to the alchemist who created it.
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I've come from my shadows, lurking, to the light to post a few questions here. Thanks in advance for your time.
1) Does an extract that is inert due to not being in an alchemist possesion have a magic aura? It can't do anything and its siphoned off part of your magic aura (according to the flavour text) so... not sure.
I would say no, unless you rule that the alchemist's 'magic aura' would detect as magic.
2) If the Alchemist cannot make extracts with focus components - why are spells like Fly on their Formulae list? So they can use Wands of Flying?
Hmm, kind of odd, they indicate that you can't make extracts with focus components, and then later indicate you can make an extract of any formulae on your list. This might be a typo.
It also states later that any 'divine' spells don't require the divine focus when made into extracts.My personal call would be that if the extract is on the formulae list to start with then the alchemist can make an extract from it.
On the Fly issue, simple correction:
"Extracts cannot be made from spells that have costly focus requirements (alchemist extracts that duplicate divine spells never have a divine focus requirement)."
Problem solved.
RAW Deflect Arrows works on ANY ranged weapon with specific exceptions:("Unusually massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged attacks generated by natural attacks or spell effects can't be deflected.")
If you deflect a splash weapon it's treated as a normal mis and you roll for scatter as normal. Except where noted "[Bombs] use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack." There's no mention of bombs being any easier to explode than, say, Alchemist Fire. Snatch Arrows works the same, however, the bomb becomes inert if anyone else is holding it, so if you throw it back, it won't go off. You can: snatch the bomb, make it inert, then drop it as a free action and it won't go off. Kinda strange.
Edit: Deflecting a Bomb is still pretty dicey, as you have no control of where that bomb lands and nearby creatures (possibly you or your allies) will take splash damage.
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RAW Deflect Arrows works on ANY ranged weapon with specific exceptions:("Unusually massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged attacks generated by natural attacks or spell effects can't be deflected.")
If you deflect a splash weapon it's treated as a normal mis and you roll for scatter as normal. Except where noted "[Bombs] use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack." There's no mention of bombs being any easier to explode than, say, Alchemist Fire. Snatch Arrows works the same, however, the bomb becomes inert if anyone else is holding it, so if you throw it back, it won't go off. You can: snatch the bomb, make it inert, then drop it as a free action and it won't go off. Kinda strange.
Edit: Deflecting a Bomb is still pretty dicey, as you have no control of where that bomb lands and nearby creatures (possibly you or your allies) will take splash damage.
You can catch a hand grenade but if it goes off in your hand it still hurts.
The Bombs feature of an Alchemist specifically states that it only detonates on a direct hit, not on touch. Bombs are splash weapons. On page 202 of the corebook, the very first sentance regarding splash weapons states;
"A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact."
A deflection or a snatch is not an impact, and as it IS classified as a ranged weapon, Deflect/Snatch would work. Ahh... and i just found this. Frost himself posted saying that Snatch Arrows would work on an alchemists bombs.
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The Bombs feature of an Alchemist specifically states that it only detonates on a direct hit, not on touch. Bombs are splash weapons. On page 202 of the corebook, the very first sentance regarding splash weapons states;
"A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact."
If you add in the Delayed Bomb effect anytime you throw a bomb then catching or deflecting are out...
Delayed Bomb "... A delayed bomb detonates immediately if any other creatures attmpets to touch or move it..."
I can just see it now, enemy alchemist throwing bombs, a PC catching the first one... then the 2nd one comes in with the Delayed Bomb effect... 'boom!'
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I have one related to this:
An Alchemist with a load of prepared extracts gets hit with a Mage's Disjunction. What happens to his extracts? Are the extracts stripped of their magic permanently? And would they get a saving throw?
If you add in the Delayed Bomb effect anytime you throw a bomb then catching or deflecting are out...Delayed Bomb "... A delayed bomb detonates immediately if any other creatures attmpets to touch or move it..."
I can just see it now, enemy alchemist throwing bombs, a PC catching the first one... then the 2nd one comes in with the Delayed Bomb effect... 'boom!'
You are absolutely correct, touching a Delayed Bomb DOES set it off. However, Delayed Bombs CANNOT be thrown.
Delayed Bomb: "An Alchemist can place a bomb so that it explodes a number of rounds after the alchemist ceases contact with the bomb."
You can only use Delayed Bomb to place bombs and not throw them. Throwing delayed bombs doesn't even make sense logically.
So no, Deflect and Snatch Arrows would NOT work on a Delayed Bomb, because Delayed Bombs aren't thrown.
As far as Mage's Disjunction, that one's a GM call. In reading the description of bombs, the bombs are prepared as inert compounds beforehand, and only mixed and activated the round of use. The question is whether you consider the inert compound magical, or merely an ordinary chemistry compound.
You could probably rule that a readied action to cast Disjunction AFTER an Alchemist has prepared a vial into a bomb but before he throws it, that it would make the bomb inert again...
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You are absolutely correct, touching a Delayed Bomb DOES set it off. However, Delayed Bombs CANNOT be thrown.Delayed Bomb: "An Alchemist can place a bomb so that it explodes a number of rounds after the alchemist ceases contact with the bomb."
You can only use Delayed Bomb to place bombs and not throw them. Throwing delayed bombs doesn't even make sense logically.
Im gonna have to disagree with this. Throwing is certainly placing a bomb, is it not? I dont see any practical reason why a delayed bomb cannot be thrown when every other bomb can be. The word "placed" is to nebulous for my tastes to rule as such. They would have put in the line "A Delayed bomb cannot be thrown" if they wanted that in. I see the delayed bomb as acting like a grenade, you throw it and instead of immediately exploding its a delayed effect.
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I have one related to this:
An Alchemist with a load of prepared extracts gets hit with a Mage's Disjunction. What happens to his extracts? Are the extracts stripped of their magic permanently? And would they get a saving throw?
My personal call would be nothing happens to prepared extracts. The effects of the extracts are subject to dispel magic and such.
My reasoning, is that extracts are the alchemists' spells, Mage's Disjunction should not have the ability to 'destroy' another creatures' spellcasting abilities.
Having said that... Mage Disjunction is a 9th lvl spell... a lot would depend on how the DM rules on whether the extracts in and of themselves are magical or not.
Worst case scenario is that the alchemist would have to make saves for each extract. Which could be a lot of dice rolling.
Extracts are supernatural. The effect they have on the target isn't. Supernatural effects can't be dispelled or countered.
You can catch a hand grenade but if it goes off in your hand it still hurts.RAW Deflect Arrows works on ANY ranged weapon with specific exceptions:("Unusually massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged attacks generated by natural attacks or spell effects can't be deflected.")
If you deflect a splash weapon it's treated as a normal mis and you roll for scatter as normal. Except where noted "[Bombs] use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack." There's no mention of bombs being any easier to explode than, say, Alchemist Fire. Snatch Arrows works the same, however, the bomb becomes inert if anyone else is holding it, so if you throw it back, it won't go off. You can: snatch the bomb, make it inert, then drop it as a free action and it won't go off. Kinda strange.
Edit: Deflecting a Bomb is still pretty dicey, as you have no control of where that bomb lands and nearby creatures (possibly you or your allies) will take splash damage.
The crunch is silent on this, but the fluff suggests that the bomb explodes due to impact rather then due to a timed chemical reaction. In either case, you can Deflect/Snatch other splash weapons, so why not bombs.
This also brings up another good point: Why can't a Alchemist give away his Bombs? I understand from a rules balance standpoint, but the fluff is completely silent in this. If an Alchemist gives his Bomb to the Ranger, and the Ranger throws it, it doesn't go off. If the Alchemist throws it at the Monk and the Monk catches and throws it back, it doesn't go off. If the Alchemist throws it at the Monk and the Monk catches and holds it, it goes off?
Im gonna have to disagree with this. Throwing is certainly placing a bomb, is it not? I dont see any practical reason why a delayed bomb cannot be thrown when every other bomb can be. The word "placed" is to nebulous for my tastes to rule as such. They would have put in the line "A Delayed bomb cannot be thrown" if they wanted that in. I see the delayed bomb as acting like a grenade, you throw it and instead of immediately exploding its a delayed effect.
You are absolutely correct, touching a Delayed Bomb DOES set it off. However, Delayed Bombs CANNOT be thrown.Delayed Bomb: "An Alchemist can place a bomb so that it explodes a number of rounds after the alchemist ceases contact with the bomb."
You can only use Delayed Bomb to place bombs and not throw them. Throwing delayed bombs doesn't even make sense logically.
Delayed bombs are sensitive to vibrations that's why they go off if someone touches them. The act of throwing the bomb would cause it to go off prematurely. That or it would fall harmlessly to the ground until the round it goes off, or someone touches it. Take your pick, but only the first one makes sense.
Edit: Delayed Bombs abused thusly could also ignore the target entirely, and be thrown at the sqaure, and still deal full damage. This clearly isn't how Delayed Bombs are intended to be used.
An alchemist's bombs are inert until right before he throws them*. He charges them right before he throws them and then the now voliatle cocktail ends up hitting someone else loaded up with potential energy. That potential energy gives way when kinetic energy is introduced via the impact, which also introduces air to the mix which would act as an additional reactive agent.
To strain an analogy, it's kind of like superconductors -- normally useless materials (from a conductive standpoint) that under the right combination of materials, enivornment and factors suddenly becomes extremely potent.
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Delayed bombs are sensitive to vibrations that's why they go off if someone touches them. The act of throwing the bomb would cause it to go off prematurely. That or it would fall harmlessly to the ground until the round it goes off, or someone touches it. Take your pick, but only the first one makes sense.Edit: Delayed Bombs abused thusly could also ignore the target entirely, and be thrown at the sqaure, and still deal full damage. This clearly isn't how Delayed Bombs are intended to be used.
Again, im not seeing the issue here. Hitting a touch AC isnt really a problem against the large majority of encounters an alchemist will face, and it is a delayed bomb. Gives the creature time to move, if the creature is prevented from moving, well thats just good strategy on the Alchemist's part. Used this way its more like an area of effect ground denial type thing, stay away from the bomb and the surrounding area because you dont know when it will explode ie the grenade analogy I used before. Hell, make the bomb have to make a touch attack to hit anything that might be in the square when it goes off, solves the insta-hit problem.
An alchemist's bombs are inert until right before he throws them*. He charges them right before he throws them and then the now voliatle cocktail ends up hitting someone else loaded up with potential energy. That potential energy gives way when kinetic energy is introduced via the impact, which also introduces air to the mix which would act as an additional reactive agent.
To strain an analogy, it's kind of like superconductors -- normally useless materials (from a conductive standpoint) that under the right combination of materials, enivornment and factors suddenly becomes extremely potent.
So, then, if a Monk Snatches a bomb he can throw it back?
This also brings up another good point: Why can't a Alchemist give away his Bombs?
Alchemist makes a Bluff check on ogre: "Here, hold this."
<alchemist runs>