Just curious if Improved Initiative and/or Warrior of Old or similar trait would be excessive for my character.
I'm playing an Elven Diviner wizard starting with 18 dex. For those that don't know the first ability of the Diviner, here you go:
round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a
foe, but you are still considered f lat-footed until you take
an action. In addition, you receive a bonus on initiative
checks equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). At
20th level, anytime you roll initiative, assume the roll
resulted in a natural 20.
...so it starts out with +1 to Init, and goes all the way to +10 to Init and always having a Nat 20 on Initiative rolls.
So at first level, with no other feats or traits aiding me, I have +5 to Init. At say, 6th level, I'll likely have +8 to Init. (+2 dex from Belt of dex) ...and it only gets better from there.
So my question is: Can you ever have too much Initiative? Is it worth spending a trait to get +2 on Init? A feat for +4 on Init? Or should I focus on other things?
So my question is: Can you ever have too much Initiative? Is it worth spending a trait to get +2 on Init? A feat for +4 on Init? Or should I focus on other things?
I probably wouldn't invest in the feat or trait at this point. I'd let it play out and see how it felt. If I felt that I wasn't getting the first action (or early actions) enough for the spells I wanted to use, then I'd invest in the Imp Init feat. If it was working out, I'd avoid spending the feat slot on that and get something else.
I probably wouldn't invest in the feat or trait at this point. I'd let it play out and see how it felt. If I felt that I wasn't getting the first action (or early actions) enough for the spells I wanted to use, then I'd invest in the Imp Init feat. If it was working out, I'd avoid spending the feat slot on that and get something else.
So my question is: Can you ever have too much Initiative? Is it worth spending a trait to get +2 on Init? A feat for +4 on Init? Or should I focus on other things?
Right... I'm thinking for sure to skip Improved Initiative because there is so much you can do with an extra feat. The trait is debatable, since the options are limited, but I could probably find something else that would be more useful long term.
Oh, and to address your point from the "should a Christian play d&d" thread: Yes, some Christians think that way and thus support the welfare state. I think they are mistaken. I think it's commendable to give your own money to those in need, but contemptible to spend other peoples money on those in need. This is something better left to communities and churches.
I think I just threadjack'd my own thread. This could be bad. >.>;;
Oh, and to address your point from the "should a Christian play d&d" thread: Yes, some Christians think that way and thus support the welfare state. I think they are mistaken. I think it's commendable to give your own money to those in need, but contemptible to spend other peoples money on those in need. This is something better left to communities and churches.I think I just threadjack'd my own thread. This could be bad. >.>;;
[following threadjack]Would it be contemptible for a church to require members to tithe and then use that money for those in need? That's been a pretty standard procedure for centuries, though in most countries the church no longer has the power to force that payment aside from withholding membership benefits.
But do you consider it contemptible to spend other people's money on things other than helping people in need? If not, what's the real difference?
[/following threadjack]
no such thing as too much initive as a wizard
you always want to be able to act first becuase a wizard going first can do exactly what they are designed to do and thats control the battlefield before the enemy has had a chance to act.
and until level 20 you can still roll a 1 for inititive so you want as big a bonus as possible to act as soon as you can
No.
Any other questions?
No.
Any other questions?
Obviously more initiative is always a good thing, but would maxing out initiative be worthwhile? By tenth level, would you rather have +15 to initiative or +11 to initiative and a bonus feat? Maybe the extra initiative is better than most other feats, but that's certainly debatable.
What feats do you usually take as a wizard and in what order?
...and I've heard of something called retraining. Is that actually in the rules? Or is that something your GM may or may not allow? If there is retraining, I'd be a little more open to taking improved initiative. Even before the level 20 "nat 20 on initiative" ability, by level 18 you might have a +24 to init. At that point and probably well before then, I'd prefer +20 to init and the feat.
Oh, and I've talked to my GM about the forewarned ability. He says that if I fail the perception check and act in the surprise round, I can't see the enemies nor know the direction they're coming from.
1. Would you suggest making perception a high priority? Should I take the trait that gives me +1 to perception and makes it a class skill? (+4 to Perception as a trait) Any other ways to bolster it?
and/or
2. Should I focus on taking advantage of this action in the surprise round in other ways? If I have no idea where the enemies are, what are some good spells to cast? Summoning and buffing comes to mind. Anything else or any spells specifically?
No.
Any other questions?
Obviously more initiative is always a good thing, but would maxing out initiative be worthwhile? By tenth level, would you rather have +15 to initiative or +11 to initiative and a bonus feat? Maybe the extra initiative is better than most other feats, but that's certainly debatable.
What feats do you usually take as a wizard and in what order?
...and I've heard of something called retraining. Is that actually in the rules? Or is that something your GM may or may not allow? If there is retraining, I'd be a little more open to taking improved initiative. Even before the level 20 "nat 20 on initiative" ability, by level 18 you might have a +24 to init. At that point and probably well before then, I'd prefer +20 to init and the feat.
+15 every time
wizard has enough feats and bonus feats , one less will not effect him.
and even by level 18 I'll still take 24 over 20
let me put this to you
if at level 18 you run into a level 20 enemy wizard, do you really want to risk being second to act even by a mere +4 init ?
No.
Any other questions?
Obviously more initiative is always a good thing, but would maxing out initiative be worthwhile? By tenth level, would you rather have +15 to initiative or +11 to initiative and a bonus feat? Maybe the extra initiative is better than most other feats, but that's certainly debatable.
What feats do you usually take as a wizard and in what order?
...and I've heard of something called retraining. Is that actually in the rules? Or is that something your GM may or may not allow? If there is retraining, I'd be a little more open to taking improved initiative. Even before the level 20 "nat 20 on initiative" ability, by level 18 you might have a +24 to init. At that point and probably well before then, I'd prefer +20 to init and the feat.
+15 every time
wizard has enough feats and bonus feats , one less will not effect him.
and even by level 18 I'll still take 24 over 20
let me put this to you
if at level 18 you run into a level 20 enemy wizard, do you really want to risk being second to act even by a mere +4 init ?
Right, so long as I don't get caught up in the Magical Lineage, Preferred Spell, Spell Perfection combo, wizards have feats to spare. ^^;
But I assume that by level 20, you can get away with your initiative always being 41 instead of always being 45? (However, by level 20, who cares, yadda, yadda, gotcha. Improved Initiative is a good feat, even for, or especially for, my build.)
Oh, and I've talked to my GM about the forewarned ability. He says that if I fail the perception check and act in the surprise round, I can't see the enemies nor know the direction they're coming from.
1. Would you suggest making perception a high priority? Should I take the trait that gives me +1 to perception and makes it a class skill? (+4 to Perception as a trait) Any other ways to bolster it?
and/or
2. Should I focus on taking advantage of this action in the surprise round in other ways? If I have no idea where the enemies are, what are some good spells to cast? Summoning and buffing comes to mind. Anything else or any spells specifically?
Perception should be a maxed skill for any character that gets more than 4 skill points per level, especvially a wizard who get heaps there's no reason not to
as for feats to enchance perception , no
but
just take a wander through your spell list
e.g.
Prying Eyes, Arcane Eye
1d4+1 scout for you
insutrions scout ahead 120feet and return if you see a creature who could be a threat.
Then arcane eye that location for real time survelliance
No.
Any other questions?
Obviously more initiative is always a good thing, but would maxing out initiative be worthwhile? By tenth level, would you rather have +15 to initiative or +11 to initiative and a bonus feat? Maybe the extra initiative is better than most other feats, but that's certainly debatable.
What feats do you usually take as a wizard and in what order?
...and I've heard of something called retraining. Is that actually in the rules? Or is that something your GM may or may not allow? If there is retraining, I'd be a little more open to taking improved initiative. Even before the level 20 "nat 20 on initiative" ability, by level 18 you might have a +24 to init. At that point and probably well before then, I'd prefer +20 to init and the feat.
+15 every time
wizard has enough feats and bonus feats , one less will not effect him.
and even by level 18 I'll still take 24 over 20
let me put this to you
if at level 18 you run into a level 20 enemy wizard, do you really want to risk being second to act even by a mere +4 init ?
Right, so long as I don't get caught up in the Magical Lineage, Preferred Spell, Spell Perfection combo, wizards have feats to spare. ^^;
But I assume that by level 20, you can get away with always having your initiative always being 41 instead of always being 45? (However, by level 20, who cares, yadda, yadda, gotcha. Improved Initiative is a good feat, even for, or especially for, my build.)
Are you serisouly saying your build breaks with only 13 feats but works with 14 feats ?
and lets be serious how many hours of play do you think you be level 20 ?
being effective over all 20 levels is the key to an effective character.
Oh, and I've talked to my GM about the forewarned ability. He says that if I fail the perception check and act in the surprise round, I can't see the enemies nor know the direction they're coming from.
1. Would you suggest making perception a high priority? Should I take the trait that gives me +1 to perception and makes it a class skill? (+4 to Perception as a trait) Any other ways to bolster it?
and/or
2. Should I focus on taking advantage of this action in the surprise round in other ways? If I have no idea where the enemies are, what are some good spells to cast? Summoning and buffing comes to mind. Anything else or any spells specifically?
Perception should be a maxed skill for any character that gets more than 4 skill points per level, especvially a wizard who get heaps there's no reason not to
as for feats to enchance perception , no
but
just take a wander through your spell liste.g.
Prying Eyes, Arcane Eye1d4+1 scout for you
insutrions scout ahead 120feet and return if you see a creature who could be a threat.Then arcane eye that location for real time survelliance
How about traits? Obviously +2 Init is better than +4 perception, but you can take two traits. Would you sooner go for another trait?
Obviously Diviners are adept at being prepared for whatever might come their way. It's all in the preparation!
I also have Keen Senses as an Elf, Alertness through my familiar, and of course skill points to spare. So perception will be maxed.
Just on a side note
Just finsihed playing Rise of the Rune Lords couple of weeks ago as 15th level wizard and I can tell you he had improved initive from 3rd level and never felt like he was short on feats.
and more importantly (Potenital Rise of the Rune Lord End Fight Spolier)
Oh, and I've talked to my GM about the forewarned ability. He says that if I fail the perception check and act in the surprise round, I can't see the enemies nor know the direction they're coming from.
1. Would you suggest making perception a high priority? Should I take the trait that gives me +1 to perception and makes it a class skill? (+4 to Perception as a trait) Any other ways to bolster it?
and/or
2. Should I focus on taking advantage of this action in the surprise round in other ways? If I have no idea where the enemies are, what are some good spells to cast? Summoning and buffing comes to mind. Anything else or any spells specifically?
Perception should be a maxed skill for any character that gets more than 4 skill points per level, especvially a wizard who get heaps there's no reason not to
as for feats to enchance perception , no
but
just take a wander through your spell liste.g.
Prying Eyes, Arcane Eye1d4+1 scout for you
insutrions scout ahead 120feet and return if you see a creature who could be a threat.Then arcane eye that location for real time survelliance
How about traits? Obviously +2 Init is better than +4 perception, but you can take two traits. Would you sooner go for another trait?
Obviously Diviners are adept at being prepared for whatever might come their way. It's all in the preparation!
I also have Keen Senses as an Elf, Alertness through my familiar, and of course skill points to spare. So perception will be maxed.
Honestly I usually take traits for flavour and not to maxing things
the one exception I have done is using a trait for a +1 to a weak save
No.
Any other questions?
Obviously more initiative is always a good thing, but would maxing out initiative be worthwhile? By tenth level, would you rather have +15 to initiative or +11 to initiative and a bonus feat? Maybe the extra initiative is better than most other feats, but that's certainly debatable.
What feats do you usually take as a wizard and in what order?
...and I've heard of something called retraining. Is that actually in the rules? Or is that something your GM may or may not allow? If there is retraining, I'd be a little more open to taking improved initiative. Even before the level 20 "nat 20 on initiative" ability, by level 18 you might have a +24 to init. At that point and probably well before then, I'd prefer +20 to init and the feat.
+15 every time
wizard has enough feats and bonus feats , one less will not effect him.
and even by level 18 I'll still take 24 over 20
let me put this to you
if at level 18 you run into a level 20 enemy wizard, do you really want to risk being second to act even by a mere +4 init ?
Right, so long as I don't get caught up in the Magical Lineage, Preferred Spell, Spell Perfection combo, wizards have feats to spare. ^^;
But I assume that by level 20, you can get away with always having your initiative always being 41 instead of always being 45? (However, by level 20, who cares, yadda, yadda, gotcha. Improved Initiative is a good feat, even for, or especially for, my build.)
Are you serisouly saying your build breaks with only 13 feats but works with 14 feats ?
and lets be serious how many hours of play do you think you be level 20 ?
being effective over all 20 levels is the key to an effective character.
Well, a build I had in mind was extremely feat intensive, but the more I look at it, the more it would seem I should avoid it.
It's supposed to be a build that plays like a "GOD" wizard with the power to convert a spell that isn't helpful at the moment into a useful fireball. (see Dazing Spell) ...but most people responded with "Wow, that's a piece of crap." ...so we'll see. ^^;
Oh, and I've talked to my GM about the forewarned ability. He says that if I fail the perception check and act in the surprise round, I can't see the enemies nor know the direction they're coming from.
1. Would you suggest making perception a high priority? Should I take the trait that gives me +1 to perception and makes it a class skill? (+4 to Perception as a trait) Any other ways to bolster it?
and/or
2. Should I focus on taking advantage of this action in the surprise round in other ways? If I have no idea where the enemies are, what are some good spells to cast? Summoning and buffing comes to mind. Anything else or any spells specifically?
Perception should be a maxed skill for any character that gets more than 4 skill points per level, especvially a wizard who get heaps there's no reason not to
as for feats to enchance perception , no
but
just take a wander through your spell liste.g.
Prying Eyes, Arcane Eye1d4+1 scout for you
insutrions scout ahead 120feet and return if you see a creature who could be a threat.Then arcane eye that location for real time survelliance
How about traits? Obviously +2 Init is better than +4 perception, but you can take two traits. Would you sooner go for another trait?
Obviously Diviners are adept at being prepared for whatever might come their way. It's all in the preparation!
I also have Keen Senses as an Elf, Alertness through my familiar, and of course skill points to spare. So perception will be maxed.
Honestly I usually take traits for flavour and not to maxing things
the one exception I have done is using a trait for a +1 to a weak save
Understood, but I'm a dirty min/max-er. xD
Well at the very least I make sure the traits fit in well with my characters story. I'm not going to make a wizard with Indomitable Faith, for example, because that just wouldn't work. (I guess it could? But not for what I had in mind.)
Just on a side note
Just finsihed playing Rise of the Rune Lords couple of weeks ago as 15th level wizard and I can tell you he had improved initive from 3rd level and never felt like he was short on feats.
and more importantly (Potenital Rise of the Rune Lord End Fight Spolier)
** spoiler omitted **
I'll keep in mind the dominating power of making the first move. :3
Oh, and I've talked to my GM about the forewarned ability. He says that if I fail the perception check and act in the surprise round, I can't see the enemies nor know the direction they're coming from.
1. Would you suggest making perception a high priority? Should I take the trait that gives me +1 to perception and makes it a class skill? (+4 to Perception as a trait) Any other ways to bolster it?
and/or
2. Should I focus on taking advantage of this action in the surprise round in other ways? If I have no idea where the enemies are, what are some good spells to cast? Summoning and buffing comes to mind. Anything else or any spells specifically?
1. For single classed diviners, the Perception and Initiative traits are excellent choices, especially together.
2. Two ways to approach it. First, ready an action with the trigger being "the first indication of where or what the attackers are." The second way is to use Vanish or Invisibility then a 5' step. If your DM allows it, research Swift Invisbility (a 3.5 spell) and combine the two. S.I. as a swift action, 5' step, and ready a standard action.
Hope this helps.
blasty build stuff
without checking all those feats just a couple of things you need to conisder
people usually critise one trick ponies for being just that so take that for what its worth
with all those feats is the fireball still conisdered a level 3 spell ? if so a mere globe of invunerbility beats you
also how would you scale the DC so that everything isn't making it 1/2 dmg saves at later levels, 3rd level spells will have 3rd level DC's ?
lastly fireball is 20ft AOE , you either need to ensure you will energy resist/protection those in melee before combat or you have to realise there will be situations you not going to be able to hit the enemy without hitting your firends and poteintally dazing them too.
also if you haven't read treantmonk guide to wizards being gods I recommend the read and I agree with him that a wizard power comes from control spells not blast spells
that said if you want to play a blasty wizard then by all means, they can be quite fun, but keep in mind you'll be doing the exact same thing for 20 levels every combat.
Oh, and I've talked to my GM about the forewarned ability. He says that if I fail the perception check and act in the surprise round, I can't see the enemies nor know the direction they're coming from.
1. Would you suggest making perception a high priority? Should I take the trait that gives me +1 to perception and makes it a class skill? (+4 to Perception as a trait) Any other ways to bolster it?
and/or
2. Should I focus on taking advantage of this action in the surprise round in other ways? If I have no idea where the enemies are, what are some good spells to cast? Summoning and buffing comes to mind. Anything else or any spells specifically?
1. For single classed diviners, the Perception and Initiative traits are excellent choices, especially together.
2. Two ways to approach it. First, ready an action with the trigger being "the first indication of where or what the attackers are." The second way is to use Vanish or Invisibility then a 5' step. If your DM allows it, research Swift Invisbility (a 3.5 spell) and combine the two. S.I. as a swift action, 5' step, and ready a standard action.
Hope this helps.
I guess the only thing that caused me to doubt the value of perception is that the Forewarned ability allows you to act even if you fail your perception checks. However, it would seem that perception is still vitally important. (Diviners are all about obtaining information and acting accordingly...)
While I could try for some 3.5 stuff, I think we'd prefer to play with just Pathfinder material. Otherwise we'd have to case by case check every spell, feat and prestige class that's okay to use.
...and thanks for the advice! I haven't been too keen on using prepared actions, but they might just make all the difference.
blasty build stuffwithout checking all those feats just a couple of things you need to conisder
people usually critise one trick ponies for being just that so take that for what its worth
with all those feats is the fireball still conisdered a level 3 spell ? if so a mere globe of invunerbility beats you
also how would you scale the DC so that everything isn't making it 1/2 dmg saves at later levels, 3rd level spells will have 3rd level DC's ?
lastly fireball is 20ft AOE , you either need to ensure you will energy resist/protection those in melee before combat or you have to realise there will be situations you not going to be able to hit the enemy without hitting your firends and poteintally dazing them too.
also if you haven't read treantmonk guide to wizards being gods I recommend the read and I agree with him that a wizard power comes from control spells not blast spells
that said if you want to play a blasty wizard then by all means, they can be quite fun, but keep in mind you'll be doing the exact same thing for 20 levels every combat.
*sigh* Nobody quite understands the build. Anyway, to address some of the points:
I would be taking Selective Spell, friendly fire wouldn't be an issue.
Spell Perfection doubles the power of Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Elemental Focus, etc. (Part of the problem with the build: late bloomer)
Heighten Spell is a prereq to Preferred Spell and I would use it. Persistent Spell is also in there.
I understand that blasting is the quaternary role of the wizard. This wizard is meant to be far more than a blaster. (I'd never have to prepare a Fireball spell, for one.)
And I take after the Treantmonk "GOD" wizard line of thinking. To make the combo work that I had in mind, I needed a 2nd or 3rd level spell that hit multiple targets and dealt damage. The best candidate was fireball. So sue me. >.<
Maybe if I chose to focus on Calcific Touch instead of fireball, people wouldn't automatically dismiss it as a blaster build, "an inferior wizard to the "GOD" wizard." Because it's not. *le sigh*
So what is the approved way of building a "GOD" wizard? I'm familiar with the better feats (Improved Initiative, Toughness, Improved Familiar, Augment Summoning, Spell Penetration, Defensive Combat Training, etc.) but how do you like to build it? ...and what feats do you take at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level?
blasty build stuffwithout checking all those feats just a couple of things you need to conisder
people usually critise one trick ponies for being just that so take that for what its worth
with all those feats is the fireball still conisdered a level 3 spell ? if so a mere globe of invunerbility beats you
also how would you scale the DC so that everything isn't making it 1/2 dmg saves at later levels, 3rd level spells will have 3rd level DC's ?
lastly fireball is 20ft AOE , you either need to ensure you will energy resist/protection those in melee before combat or you have to realise there will be situations you not going to be able to hit the enemy without hitting your firends and poteintally dazing them too.
also if you haven't read treantmonk guide to wizards being gods I recommend the read and I agree with him that a wizard power comes from control spells not blast spells
that said if you want to play a blasty wizard then by all means, they can be quite fun, but keep in mind you'll be doing the exact same thing for 20 levels every combat.
*sigh* Nobody quite understands the build. Anyway, to address some of the points:
I would be taking Selective Spell, friendly fire wouldn't be an issue.
Spell Perfection doubles the power of Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Elemental Focus, etc. (Part of the problem with the build: late bloomer)
Heighten Spell is a prereq to Preferred Spell and I would use it. Persistent Spell is also in there.
I understand that blasting is the quaternary role of the wizard. This wizard is meant to be far more than a blaster. (I'd never have to prepare a Fireball spell, for one.)
And I take after the Treantmonk "GOD" wizard line of thinking. To make the combo work that I had in mind, I needed a 2nd or 3rd level spell that hit multiple targets and dealt damage. The best candidate was fireball. So sue me. >.<
Well if you think you've got your bases covered and you seem to have addressed my concerns with using low level spells and you GM agree's with you on how all those feat interact with each other then go for it
the only way your going to find out how it play is by playing it none of us can tell you that.
back to your original question yes I'd still try and get improved initive in there since this is most effective when you can use it before the enemy acts.
Oh, and Treantmonk advises against "selling your feats" to crafting feats. While I'm inclined to agree, Craft Wondrous Items to get items that increase your Int and many other extremely useful things sooner than otherwise possible seems enough to warrant sacrificing a feat.
Oh, and Treantmonk advises against "selling your feats" to crafting feats. While I'm inclined to agree, Craft Wondrous Items to get items that increase your Int and many other extremely useful things sooner than otherwise possible seems enough to warrant sacrificing a feat.
get somone else to take crafting feats ;) you can still supply the spells and caster level for it if they have the feat.
Oh, and Treantmonk advises against "selling your feats" to crafting feats. While I'm inclined to agree, Craft Wondrous Items to get items that increase your Int and many other extremely useful things sooner than otherwise possible seems enough to warrant sacrificing a feat.get somone else to take crafting feats ;) you can still supply the spells and caster level for it if they have the feat.
True enough. If you can sucker someone else into taking it, you'll be much better for it... xP
I guess the only thing that caused me to doubt the value of perception is that the Forewarned ability allows you to act even if you fail your perception checks. However, it would seem that perception is still vitally important. (Diviners are all about obtaining information and acting accordingly...)
While I could try for some 3.5 stuff, I think we'd prefer to play with just Pathfinder material. Otherwise we'd have to case by case check every spell, feat and prestige class that's okay to use.
...and thanks for the advice! I haven't been too keen on using prepared actions, but they might just make all the difference.
It all depends on your level and spell selection, of course, but blasting the baddies with a selective fireball (to avoid your scout, if appropriate) in "their" surprise round just strikes be as delicious.
Obscuring Mist is also a good candidate for a Forewarned action. It blocks line of sight and, therefore, a lot of potential actions of the ambushers. Pretty much all of the Wall of XXXXX spells, as well.
There's also the Lookout teamwork feat in the APG. It's fairly restrictive, but might be worth encouraging another party member to take in order to increase the number of actions the party gets in the surpise round. If you have a cleric or druid, for example, you could get off two party buffs before the fight even began.
Also, don't forget that you can trade Diviner's Fortune(?) for a limited Clairvoyance by choosing the Scryer Subschool from the APG. With that and the Forewarned ability, I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to play a diviner. I just love them. As a player, that is. As a DM? Not so much. As a poster on another board lamented, "Diviners spoil everything!" Heehee.
Sure, a wizard can have too much initiave: when you need a supercomputer to calculate your bonus.
Other than that, there is stuff that is more important if you already got a decent ini, like HP an saves, but as you proved .
And keep in mind that the value of initiative depends on how your GM plays NPC's. If they start all at the same place, ini is great. If bosses are rare and monsters are all at different places, and too often come one by one, ambushing you, then ini might not be that valuable.
But that's just my opinion.
Oh, and Treantmonk advises against "selling your feats" to crafting feats. While I'm inclined to agree, Craft Wondrous Items to get items that increase your Int and many other extremely useful things sooner than otherwise possible seems enough to warrant sacrificing a feat.
leadership, with a cleric with craft wondrous, forge ring, craft magic arms and armor, etc etc
and you can never have enough leadership, get that scorpian familiar!
I once had a Wizard with an initiative bonus of like +34. It was obscene, but everyone knew who would be going first in a given encounter.
I guess the only thing that caused me to doubt the value of perception is that the Forewarned ability allows you to act even if you fail your perception checks. However, it would seem that perception is still vitally important. (Diviners are all about obtaining information and acting accordingly...)
While I could try for some 3.5 stuff, I think we'd prefer to play with just Pathfinder material. Otherwise we'd have to case by case check every spell, feat and prestige class that's okay to use.
...and thanks for the advice! I haven't been too keen on using prepared actions, but they might just make all the difference.
It all depends on your level and spell selection, of course, but blasting the baddies with a selective fireball (to avoid your scout, if appropriate) in "their" surprise round just strikes be as delicious.
Obscuring Mist is also a good candidate for a Forewarned action. It blocks line of sight and, therefore, a lot of potential actions of the ambushers. Pretty much all of the Wall of XXXXX spells, as well.
There's also the Lookout teamwork feat in the APG. It's fairly restrictive, but might be worth encouraging another party member to take in order to increase the number of actions the party gets in the surpise round. If you have a cleric or druid, for example, you could get off two party buffs before the fight even began.
Also, don't forget that you can trade Diviner's Fortune(?) for a limited Clairvoyance by choosing the Scryer Subschool from the APG. With that and the Forewarned ability, I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to play a diviner. I just love them. As a player, that is. As a DM? Not so much. As a poster on another board lamented, "Diviners spoil everything!" Heehee.
Unfortunately (well, I would say fortunately) I'm going for the Foresight Subschool. The abilities are AMAZING.
may, as a free action, roll a single d20. At any point before
your next turn, you may use the result of this roll as the
result of any d20 roll you are required to make. If you do
not use the d20 result before your next turn, it is lost. You
can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 +
your Intelligence modifier.
Foretell (Su): At 8th level, you can utter a prediction of
the immediate future. While your foretelling is in effect,
you emit a 30-foot aura of fortune that aids your allies
or hinders your enemies, as chosen by you at the time of
prediction. If you choose to aid, you and your allies gain
a +2 luck bonus on ability checks, attack rolls, caster level
checks, saving throws, and skill checks. If you choose
to hinder, your enemies take a –2 penalty on those rolls
instead. You can use this ability for a number of rounds
per day equal to your wizard level. These rounds do not
need to be consecutive.
Prescience - What's that? A nat 20? How shall I use it this time... Or: Don't worry about it guys; I have a really good feeling about this stealth check.
Foretell - An extra Spell Penetration? Nice! What's that? It's also a +2 on every save, attack roll, ability and skill check? ...and it also works on my friends? ...and it's a free action? Wow. O_o
...combine these two abilities with Forewarned and you have one happy "GOD" wizard.
I also thought the same thing you did. You may want to think about the 3+Int Mod uses per day of Prescience as well as the fairly relevant chance that you won't roll very high every round. I ran a foresight subschool wizard against my PCs and his foresight rolls looked like this, over 5 rounds:
3
2
7
9
15
So, just for consideration. Yeah, it's useful and awesome for making the right moves at the right time, but no, it's not completely and totally killer unless your dice luck is really running strong.
On the flip side, remember that using a supernatural ability is a standard action. It's not a free action to use Foretell, even though the flavor text references speaking.
I also thought the same thing you did. You may want to think about the 3+Int Mod uses per day of Prescience as well as the fairly relevant chance that you won't roll very high every round. I ran a foresight subschool wizard against my PCs and his foresight rolls looked like this, over 5 rounds:
3
2
7
9
15So, just for consideration. Yeah, it's useful and awesome for making the right moves at the right time, but no, it's not completely and totally killer unless your dice luck is really running strong.
On the flip side, remember that using a supernatural ability is a standard action. It's not a free action to use Foretell, even though the flavor text references speaking.
Hmm. Where does it say that Supernatural abilities have to be Standard Actions? Here's all that I could find:
...and...
Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.
According to Foretell, you simply need to utter something.
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
Maybe I'm just missing something. Help me find it if that's the case! :3
I also thought the same thing you did. You may want to think about the 3+Int Mod uses per day of Prescience as well as the fairly relevant chance that you won't roll very high every round. I ran a foresight subschool wizard against my PCs and his foresight rolls looked like this, over 5 rounds:
3
2
7
9
15So, just for consideration. Yeah, it's useful and awesome for making the right moves at the right time, but no, it's not completely and totally killer unless your dice luck is really running strong.
On the flip side, remember that using a supernatural ability is a standard action. It's not a free action to use Foretell, even though the flavor text references speaking.
True, Prescience won't always be awesome... Maybe give him a Cleric cohort; heck, a Cleric follower, with the Luck Domain. First ability:
Bit of Luck (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, giving it a bit of luck. For the next round, any time the target rolls a d20, he may roll twice and take the more favorable result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Take that prescience roll twice. xP
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I also thought the same thing you did. You may want to think about the 3+Int Mod uses per day of Prescience as well as the fairly relevant chance that you won't roll very high every round. I ran a foresight subschool wizard against my PCs and his foresight rolls looked like this, over 5 rounds:
3
2
7
9
15So, just for consideration. Yeah, it's useful and awesome for making the right moves at the right time, but no, it's not completely and totally killer unless your dice luck is really running strong.
On the flip side, remember that using a supernatural ability is a standard action. It's not a free action to use Foretell, even though the flavor text references speaking.
Hmm. Where does it say that Supernatural abilities have to be Standard Actions? Here's all that I could find:
** spoiler omitted **
According to Foretell, you simply need to utter something.
** spoiler omitted **
Maybe I'm just missing something. Help me find it if that's the case! :3
The actions in Combat table list it under it's Standard Action section.
Think about it as the standard action is to mentally beating reality into giving you the prediction, which can then be transmitted to your allies as a simple comment