| Dilvish the Danged |
| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Or more specifically, can you add weapon bonuses to your CMB (either enhancement or from Weapons Training and or Weapon Focus, etc.), when you perform any of these maneuvers. (Reposition and Dirty Trick are new combat maneuvers from the APG).
For a long time I have been operating under the assumption that you can use a weapon with the Stand Still feat, but I can't find any text that actually indicates this.
| Tanis |
No. If you have a weapon with a specific property, ie. Trip, and you attempt to trip someone you can then apply any bonuses to the weapon to your CMB.
Core p.199: Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
| Dilvish the Danged |
But you don't need a weapon with the disarm property to use your weapon in a disarm attempt. The disarm property only gives you a bonus. I think it is more or less the same for trip, but the trip property allows you to drop the weapon in order to avoid being tripped.
At least that is how I have always played.
| Tanis |
For disarm you're right it gives you a bonus. And under Disarm it says: Attempting to disarm a foe while unarmed imposes a –4 penalty on the attack.
This would assume that normally you do use a weapon to disarm.
Trip says: You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.
So if it states that you can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks, it follows that you can't use a weapon without the trip property to make trip attacks.
So it depends on the maneouvre. My interpretation:
Bullrush
No weapon bonuses.
Disarm
If you're disarming while unarmed you take a -4 penalty.
If you're disarming with a weapon without the disarm property: normal bonuses for weapon apply.
If you're disarming with a weapon with the disarm property: normal bonuses for weapon apply +2.
Grapple
No weapon bonuses
Overrun
No weapon bonuses.
Sunder
Weapon bonuses apply
Trip
Tripping unarmed: normal/ no weapon bonuses apply.
Tripping with trip weapon: weapon bonuses apply + can drop weapon to avoid being tripped in return.
| Dilvish the Danged |
I agree with everything that you just posted except for tripping with a weapon (sans trip property), which is not clear in the rules, and has not been made clear to me after perusing numerous, lengthy threads on the topic. I allow weapon bonuses to be added, but I could be wrong.
With regards to the Stand Still feat, I was sure that weapon bonuses could be applied to it's maneuver, and have already ruled accordingly, but I can't find any text to back it up (it's a bit moot now though). and with regards to Dirty Trick and Reposition, I'm just not sure.
| Tanis |
Like i said that's the way i read the rules. I've inferred from the statement 'You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks' that if you don't have a weapon with the trip property then you can't use it for trip attempts. YMMV.
Just use your judgement based on the circumstances. If someone's trying to Steal or Reposition it's hard to imagine how a weapon could be useful.
Re Stand Still: To me it reads that you're blocking them. If you rule that you can block someone with a weapon, cool.
| Kaiyanwang |
Well, even if Tanis is right, following RAW, i can definitively see this happen in certain situations. Block an ogre on the place (standstill) bludgeoning his knee with a mace makes perfectly sense, IMO.
The same, reposition someone with an hooked (i.e., good for tripping like a guisarme) weapon.
Dirty trick is a completely different beast, since it's so situational that I couldn't really think of a general rule (but I could bring an example: entangle with +3 bolas: it makes sense, IMO).
| Zen79 |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
DIRTY TRICK
You can attempt to hinder a foe in melee as a standard action. This maneuver covers any sort of situational attack that imposes a penalty on a foe for a short period of time. Examples include kicking sand into an opponent's face to blind him for 1 round, pulling down an enemy's pants to halve his speed, or hitting a foe in a sensitive spot to make him sickened for a round.
So at least one of the examples could be done with a weapon: "...hitting a foe in a sensitive spot to make him sickened...".
With a little creativity you could describe all the penalties caused by using a weapon:- blinded: with a quick horizontal swing of your blade, you splatter blood from the blade (his own blood, of course!) into his eyes.
- dazzled: you use your blade to reflect the light of the sun into your enemie's eyes.
- deafened: with the flat of your blade, you hit your enemie's ear.
- entangled: you cut the belt holding your enemie's pants up.
- shaken: a threatening jab with your blade leaves your enemy shaken.
- sickened: you hit a weak spot.
So I would definitely rule that you can indeed use any weapon to perform a Dirty Trick, as long as the player provides a cool description... but RAW, I'm not sure.