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I'm not sure there's a difference between those two types of arguments.More like an argument where the parties involved will never agree. :|
I absolutely do take the character's stats into account. Usually by asking a chatty PC to make a diplomacy check, though, which low Charisma PCs aren't usually expecting...As for that argument... I'm not really interested in becoming part of it, since it sounds like an argument just for argument's sake.
The second kind has more hate in it. [embarrassed face]
That's a Jason question... but overall, magi do not use two-handed weapons. They need to keep a hand free for spellcasting—they're not "fighter/wizards" as much as they are two weapon fighters who just happen to use spells as their off-hand weapon. So two-handed weapons are nonsensical in most cases—the staff magus is the only one I know of that breaks that rule.James, a PC of mine wanted to know if the weapon limitations of a Bladebound Magus were for fluff or game balance? (Context : He wanted to have a greatsword as his Black Blade)
Any insider thoughts / info on the subject? Thank you!
We currently have an E.Knight in our group who uses an elven curveblade. He has a 3pp feat that lets him use a full round action to attack and then cast a spell in a single round.
From what you just said, he shouldn't be able to do that. We just figured that letting go and grabbing the sword in one hand is such an easy thing to do that it wouldn't be an issue with spellcasting. There isn't anything we could find in the rules that said two-handed weapons and spells didn't mix (besides the need for one hand with somatic components,) and a rules question post I made had plenty of people agree that he could do that.
Does this mean we were wrong and he shouldn't be interchanging two-handed weapon attacks with spellcasting?
What it means is that the 3pp feat that your E.Knight uses is really really powerful. So powerful in fact that Paizo rather opted to make a class that gets this as their primary ability. Note, for example, that the quarterstaff wielding magus gets Quarterstaff Master for free at level 1, which allows him to wield a quarterstaff in one hand as a weapon (thus allowing him to still do spellcombat with the quarterstaff).
Casting a spell with somatic components usually takes a standard action. That would be most of a round spend with your hand doing gestures and other somatic things. So normally having a greatsword and just holding it in one hand to cast isn't a problem - since that's all you're doing that round. Getting the ability to do a full-round attack with your greatsword, and still having the time to cast elaborately with a free hand is quite extremely powerful - probably too much so.
Maybe it helps to explain the flavor: the magus actually casts his spell *while* fighting with his weapon. At the same time. That is why he must usually have his off-hand free - because he's actually making complex arcane gestures while doing the ol' parry-n-thrust.
Creative Director
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Just to add a question (don't want to break the thread :) - what have you (and Paizo) learned from Ultimate Magic that you are doing even better in Ultimate Combat?
That we need more time for playtests. We had a MUCH larger amount of time for Ultimate Combat's playtest, and on top of that Ultimate Combat's playtest was overall much smaller.
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This is one I have been arguing about with my DM. If a PC has a familiar, summoned monster, animated undead, eidolon, etc.. Does the Dm control it or does the player?
My DM argues that he controls all that stuff and can make them act as he sees fit, while I keep telling that since they are part of the character via class features, that the players control them. This is a problem because my summoner now refuses to summon his eidolon because the DM makes him act like a complete moron that loves puns and doctor who jokes. We argued about it and I told him, quote, "My summoner does not summon annoying idiots. He has standards." In fact it has reached the point where some players are killing their animal companions or releasing them so they can try for a different, less annoying one. Heck, no wizard will take a familiar in our group for this reason.
That's up to your GM.
Some GMs (like me) let the player control the familiar, summoned monsters, eidolons, cohorts, etc. because the GM is already running every single other character in the game is already enough work. In fact, I suspect the majority of GMs run things this way. It's certainly a lot easier for the GM to run this way, and it's also a lot more fair to the player.
If I were in a game where the GM controlled summoned monsters and familiars and animal companions... I'd play a character who didn't have anything like summoned monsters or familiars or animal companions.
Sounds like in your game the GM needs to take an honest look at his policy for running parts of his players' characters. Because a GM who annoys his players to the point where they quit his game isn't a GM anymore.
In any event, I can't say that I'm at all surprised that the players in your game are reacting like they are.
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James, this is my dog. He has taken issue with your anti-dog stance, and wants you to reconsider such a negative position. Do you think he can change your mind?
CATS FOREVER!
He does look like a happy dog though. Not sure why he needs my approval, when it looks like he's pretty pleased already.
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Just on a matter of curiosity about whether weapons in Golarion are localized.
Obviously, one wouldn't run into firearms commonly beyond Alkenstar, but how common would the Scimitar be beyond Qadira and the Aldori Dueling Sword beyond Brevoy?
Then there are the weird things like the Urumi (which I assume originated in Garund) and I really don't expect to see Klars, Earthbreakers and the like beyond Varisia and I don't really have any idea if there is a culture which uses the Falcata prevalently.
How widespread are the different styles of weapons? Would a Brevic citizen snub a scimitar or a Qadiran a longsword?
All weapons in the Core Rulebook can be considered to be "everywhere weapons." Of course, when you give NPCs weapons, you SHOULD take into account their beliefs, their backgrounds, and their roles... giving a barbarian from the Linnorm Kingdoms a scimitar or a Jalmeray monk a battleaxe would be jarring and weird and awkward. But this game has talking trees and flying horses and people who live for hundreds of years. It can handle jarring NPCs now and then.
Now, once you get into other books, like the Inner Sea World Guide or Advanced Player's Guide... those weapons are a bit more rarefied. But that's mostly because fewer people have those books than the Core Rulebook.
In the end... weird weapons are as common as you want them to be. Don't mistake "Everyone in the Pathfinder Society has this weapon" or "Everyone in my adventuring group carries an urumi" to be the same as "These weapons are everywhere in the world" is all.
As for what I think about who should wield what weapons... just check out any book we publish set in Golarion or look at the art. You don't see many Linnorm Kingdom barbarians wielding sais or blowguns or scimitars.
(Falcatas come from Taldor, by the way.)
I'm so going to make a blowgun and scimitar-wielding Linnorm Kings Ulfen now. (Come to think of it, the scimitar would only be a little jarring if it was wielded by, say, the son of a member of the Ulfen Guard in Taldor who's returned to his father or mother's homeland after a stint as a caravan-guard in Qadira.)
James, this is my dog. He has taken issue with your anti-dog stance, and wants you to reconsider such a negative position. Do you think he can change your mind?CATS FOREVER!
He does look like a happy dog though. Not sure why he needs my approval, when it looks like he's pretty pleased already.
You should see my Maine Coons. 18 lbs, 17 lbs, and 15 lbs (the youngest is only 2, we're expecting him to top out about 20 lbs). It's like watching little panthers walk around the house.
Dear James Jacobs,
I recently re-watched Queen stealing the show at Live aid in 1985 (I wish I could have been there)
(I've not tried a link before so here's hoping)
My totally unreasonable question is how would you stat up the late, great Freddie Mercury (and the rest of Queen) in Pathfinder? What Charisma would you give him and what sort of skill DC for this performance?
I'm thinking a group of internationally renowned bards level 16-20, maxed out (at least +19 ranks) in performance (vocals for Freddie), profession (musician) and craft (songwriting), (all the band members have written hit songs) plus skill focus giving +6 in each of the above. I suppose, to work the crowd, Freddie gets max ranks and skill focus in sense motive as well. What other skills or feats might help, except perhaps extra performance? I'm vetoing Freddie having leadership with the rest of the band being cohorts. They're not. Definitely not.
Stats -
Strength – no weakling,
Dex – can run around all over the stage and not trip up
Con – well, he did survive a good few years of sex'n'drugs'n'rock'n'roll, so it must have started out quite high
Int – Brian May has an earned PhD in Astronomy, and given the band endured so long, it's unlikely any of the other band members are idiots
Wisdom – tricky.
Charisma – I'm not even going to hazard a guess here. Armband of +6 Char? Did he need one?
Incidentally, I personally don't find him especially good looking, and the 'tash is plain silly, so he's a good example of why Charisma doesn't equal looks.
So, the final performance. As it's principally vocal, would you base it on Freddie plus aid another from the rest of the band, or come up with some sort of group combination? I was privileged to be at the Queen concert in Wembley in 1986 and this is pretty much the sort of performance Queen delivered every time. So take 10 for the performance roll and add circumstantial modifiers for professionalism, reheasals, over a decade of concert experience, inspired choice of great songs (I'll allow a roll of 20 for that), inspire competance at +5 or +6 from at least 2 band members (unless it stacks, in which case all 4 give +15 to +18) and anything else that seems relevant.
Looking forward to feedback.
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I'm just reading the (incredibly good) Lords of Chaos. The Dagon entry says, that heretical sahuagin and skum worship the Shadow in the Sea (making sense, since the non-heretic sahuagin and skum are most likely lawful). I assume the non-heretical skum refer to their aboleth creators as gods, but what powers or creatures do the sahuagin worship?
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Thank you for the input, Wraithstrike, but I still beleive this makes rogues too powerful, so I'll still request an official responce for this question as well.
If you actually run the numbers, even allowing every attack to be a sneak attack, you see the rogue is not the damage king (That crown is usually given to the archer archetype fighter). I know xd6 over multiple TWF attacks seems powerful at first glance, but the numbers actually work out to be pretty balanced. If anything, many people tend to claim rogue is underpowered. (I disagree, but skill use tends to see a greater benefit in many of my games than some). They certainly don't dominate combat.
If you actually run the numbers, even allowing every attack to be a sneak attack, you see the rogue is not the damage king (That crown is usually given to the archer archetype fighter). I know xd6 over multiple TWF attacks seems powerful at first glance, but the numbers actually work out to be pretty balanced. If anything, many people tend to claim rogue is underpowered. (I disagree, but skill use tends to see a greater benefit in many of my games than some). They certainly don't dominate combat.
Thank you for the input, Wraithstrike, but I still beleive this makes rogues too powerful, so I'll still request an official responce for this question as well.
+1. Beware the Knee-jerk reaction to d6 piles.
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Until they started taking cold damage, which would happen almost immediately. That'd hurt the fire elemental in particular right quick.
Not as quick as people assume, remember there is no atmosphere for convection and conduction to work, which leaves you only radiating heat.
That does still leave the fire elemental in a bad position though....
James, what's the most fire you've ever seen in one place at once, in person?
Until they started taking cold damage, which would happen almost immediately. That'd hurt the fire elemental in particular right quick.Not as quick as people assume, remember there is no atmosphere for convection and conduction to work, which leaves you only radiating heat.
That does still leave the fire elemental in a bad position though....
James, what's the most fire you've ever seen in one place at once, in person?
The other thing people forget to take into account is the sun.
If you're in space, and you are not being blocked from the sun by a planet, then you don't freeze, you boil. The air elemental is hosed no matter what, he's turned into plasma by the heat or ice by the cold and dissipated by the vacuum.
A fire elemental however, in direct sunlight in the liquid/water zone is probably feeling just fine heat wise. He might even get a boost.
An ice elemental in the same spot is burning up.
I should imagine the fire elemental would suffocate out there in the dephlogisticated vapours.
Dear James Jacobs,
I recently re-watched Queen stealing the show at Live aid in 1985 (I wish I could have been there)
(I've not tried a link before so here's hoping)
My totally unreasonable question is how would you stat up the late, great Freddie Mercury (and the rest of Queen) in Pathfinder? What Charisma would you give him and what sort of skill DC for this performance?
I'm pretty sure that Freddie Mercury's Charisma score was equal to (infinity minus one). Beyond that, you're asking for a lot of work out of a guy who has been doing a lot of work already this week.
Having said that, though, if James DID build a stat block for Freddie as a level 20 bard, it would be pretty frickin' sweet and I would totally use it. =]
I should imagine the fire elemental would suffocate out there in the dephlogisticated vapours.
Quit getting your obsolete science theories mixed up with my psuedo-scientific fantasy rules!
:)
Dear James Jacobs,
I recently re-watched Queen stealing the show at Live aid in 1985 (I wish I could have been there)
(I've not tried a link before so here's hoping)
My totally unreasonable question is how would you stat up the late, great Freddie Mercury (and the rest of Queen) in Pathfinder? What Charisma would you give him and what sort of skill DC for this performance?
I'm pretty sure that Freddie Mercury's Charisma score was equal to (infinity minus one). Beyond that, you're asking for a lot of work out of a guy who has been doing a lot of work already this week.
Having said that, though, if James DID build a stat block for Freddie as a level 20 bard, it would be pretty frickin' sweet and I would totally use it. =]
True, true. I'm mostly only curious about the Charisma and the performance DC. I'm not at all interested in a spell list :)
If I were to run a Sci-Fi / Future game using the PF system could one use Summon Monster (blank) to summon a fire elemental or air elemental in space? Elementals don't need to breathe, but are the elementals' physiologies such that they are reliant on air/oxygen to exist, or would the magical, extraplanar nature of their being make it unneccessary?Yup; they'd probably do fine in outer space. Until they started taking cold damage, which would happen almost immediately. That'd hurt the fire elemental in particular right quick.
That is atleast a trick question. Atleast for the fire elemental. A void( lack of air) is a hostile enviroment for it...you can't summon it in space just like you can't summon a aquatic creature on land.
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Creative Director
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My totally unreasonable question is how would you stat up the late, great Freddie Mercury (and the rest of Queen) in Pathfinder? What Charisma would you give him and what sort of skill DC for this performance?
Trying to use game stats to build real-world people isn't really easy but it can get frustrating, so I just don't do it all that much. I guess I'd give him a 15 Charisma (using he standard NPC stat array) and go from there. It would, of course, be complicated by the fact that I'm not really a Queen fan and don't know much about them at all.
Ahem.
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Creative Director
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I'm just reading the (incredibly good) Lords of Chaos. The Dagon entry says, that heretical sahuagin and skum worship the Shadow in the Sea (making sense, since the non-heretic sahuagin and skum are most likely lawful). I assume the non-heretical skum refer to their aboleth creators as gods, but what powers or creatures do the sahuagin worship?
Actual, aboleth-loyal skum don't think of them as gods but as a source—skum who find religion are all heretics, since the aboleth, being some of the greatest enemies of faith on the planet, didn't build skum with the intent to let them be able to have faith in anything. So when I say "heretical skum" I kinda mean "any skum who worships an actual deity or demigod."
As for sahuagin... we actually haven't done much at all with them yet in Golarion, so I'm not quite ready to say who their primary deity is. My gut reaction is to "assign" them to one of the arch devils though.
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Until they started taking cold damage, which would happen almost immediately. That'd hurt the fire elemental in particular right quick.Not as quick as people assume, remember there is no atmosphere for convection and conduction to work, which leaves you only radiating heat.
That does still leave the fire elemental in a bad position though....
James, what's the most fire you've ever seen in one place at once, in person?
That said... fire elementals are living fire and provide their own source of fuel and what not... so they kinda break the rules already. A fire elemental in space would die of cold damage far before anything else got him, in any event.
The most fire I've seen in one place at one time in person would be one of the following:
1) At a beach party when I was 16 or so, some idiot lit some driftwood on fire and it spread far enough that the fire department had to come put it out, and we all got to be interviewed by the cops, and my friend's older brother gave the cops a fake name. Good times.
2) The day a building just down the street from the old Paizo office in Bellevue caught on fire. That was a bigger fire than #1 above, but most of the flames were inside so I didn't actually see a lot of them.
3) A forest fire. Growing up in California, I've seen my share of these over the years. Those I've seen are far away though, or actually have low flames even though they spread out. #1 still leaves a bigger impression on me, I guess, since it was close-range and was lit by an idiot on purpose.
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The other thing people forget to take into account is the sun.
If you're in space, and you are not being blocked from the sun by a planet, then you don't freeze, you boil. The air elemental is hosed no matter what, he's turned into plasma by the heat or ice by the cold and dissipated by the vacuum.
A fire elemental however, in direct sunlight in the liquid/water zone is probably feeling just fine heat wise. He might even get a boost.
An ice elemental in the same spot is burning up.
Assuming you're in one of the few parts of space that's close enough to a sun that that'll matter, of course.
Elementals don't breathe, so he's got nothing to worry about in the suffocation category.
I just wanted to use "dephlogisticated vapours" in a sentence. Opportunities are hard to come by.
Chuck Norris arrives at the Worldwound. How long before he kicks the demons out of existence?
Is it true that Chuck Norris sleeps with a nightlight because the dark is afraid of him?
If Alain made Kyra cry what would Merisiel think his fate should be?
Merisiel,
I could have sworn that you mentioned a story about you and one of your companions having to hide from Socorro, Butcher of Carrion Hill, in the tunnels beneath that town. But now I can't find it. Am I losing my mind?
Nope; we did indeed nearly stumble into Socorro's clutches one day under Carrion Hill.
Based on this, is it canon (via word of the developer) that Socorro is still undead and kicking beneath Carrion Hill (for the purposes of citing on the PathfinderWiki)?
If Alain made Kyra cry what would Merisiel think his fate should be?
I'd force him to eat cobwebs. And then throw his clothes off the top of a building. And then maybe rub sand in his eyes. Coarse sand... if I get to pick the grit level.
I would wait until Pathfinder #48 comes out before you start getting all Wiki-happy with Socorro.
Thanks, James! You're crazy awesome!
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To a fellow cat-lover and horror movie fanatic (aka JJ):
Have you seen any of these 3 movies, and if so, how do they rate?
The Collector
Laid to Rest
Hatchet
I always thought these 3 movies would make a great movie night together. Hatchet already has a sequel (which I haven't seen yet), and the other two have sequels in the works as well.
I almost bought the "I Spit on Your Grave" remake the other day as well; do you think this goes too far?
It's always good to know a fellow horror geek is designing the games I love to play.
NOTE: Too bad you aren't into Dr Who or Buffy though. These shows rock like apple sauce....
Would you be interested to know that John Carpenter is going to be a guest of honor at a convention in Kentucky in July?
http://www.fandomfest.com/
If Alain made Kyra cry what would Merisiel think his fate should be?I'd force him to eat cobwebs. And then throw his clothes off the top of a building. And then maybe rub sand in his eyes. Coarse sand... if I get to pick the grit level.
I feel a Merisiel/Archer crossover fanfic brewing... =]
Why don't clerics get disrupt undead?
Are we ever likely to see an 'Official' list of Cavalier mounts beyond Horse/Came/Pony/Riding Dog? (obviously down the track, given the work-load you guys are fighting against)
What would you think of a Dire Echidna popping up in a game?
Or for that matter, a Dire Skunk?
If there was a world-shattering event (again) in Golarion, such as outright war between Keleshite and Taldan or a similar event, what would be your vote on the matter (and we are talking years from now, naturally, when the campaign world needs a shake up or three)? Something that would radically alter the balance of power, political, economical and militarily?
Out of curiosity (and being quite the fan of Lovecraft in Pathfinder), will there be more than the 4 Old Ones mentioned in "Rule of Fear" in the "Wake of the Watchers" article?
Many thanks...!
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Creative Director
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To a fellow cat-lover and horror movie fanatic (aka JJ):
Have you seen any of these 3 movies, and if so, how do they rate?
The Collector
Laid to Rest
Hatchet
I always thought these 3 movies would make a great movie night together. Hatchet already has a sequel (which I haven't seen yet), and the other two have sequels in the works as well.
I almost bought the "I Spit on Your Grave" remake the other day as well; do you think this goes too far?
It's always good to know a fellow horror geek is designing the games I love to play.
NOTE: Too bad you aren't into Dr Who or Buffy though. These shows rock like apple sauce....
The Collector: Had some really neat photography, particularly of the spiders (whether it was CGI or not, still neat). The story was kinda meh; it started out okay but it didn't do enough interesting with the storyline and it had a kind of frustrating/unsatisfying ending. The way the movie kept having to introduce new characters over and over was kinda silly too; it was like they didn't realize how many victims they needed so they just started throwing new characters in whenever they ran low. And since new characters are lame when compared to established characters you've had time to get to know... end result isn't as entertaining.
Laid to Rest: Haven't seen this one.
Hatchet: Tony Todd was the best part of this movie. The rest of it was kinda meh. I do want to see the sequel though; Hatchet's the type of movie where it would have been much better if they went even MORE over the top than they did, which I hear the sequel might just do.
I've seen the original "I Spit on Your Grave" and didn't like it much at all. I'm not all that eager to see the remake. The movie's always struck me as one of those that thinks it has an important topic (empowering women to get revenge) but in fact ends up being nothing more than an exploitation movie that earns its notoriety not by being a good movie but by being a bad one.
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Are we ever likely to see an 'Official' list of Cavalier mounts beyond Horse/Came/Pony/Riding Dog? (obviously down the track, given the work-load you guys are fighting against)
What would you think of a Dire Echidna popping up in a game?
Or for that matter, a Dire Skunk?
If there was a world-shattering event (again) in Golarion, such as outright war between Keleshite and Taldan or a similar event, what would be your vote on the matter (and we are talking years from now, naturally, when the campaign world needs a shake up or three)? Something that would radically alter the balance of power, political, economical and militarily?
You already did. The official cavalier mount list IS what's listed in the character description. More exotic animals being added to that list is up to the GM or adventure writier.
The dire animal category is not strengthened by numbers. I actually wish the category would go away entirely, to be replaced by megafauna—the original "dire" animal was, after all, the dire wolf, which is a real-world prehistoric creature. The 3rd edition designers, for whatever reason, decided that putting "dire" in front of animals was a good name for "tougher" animals. My take on how to solve that would have been to have the "tougher" animals be prehistoric animals. So no dire tigers, but smilodons. No dire bears, but cave bears. And so on. I was kind of able to see this play out in Pathfinder, by giving the dire animals their proper megafauna names. Going forward, you can expect to see VERY few (probably zero) new "dire" animals show up in Pathfinder bestiaries, but you WILL see more prehistoric or completely imaginary animals showing up now and then.
So, no dire echidna or dire skunk. MAYBE a giant skunk, though.
No world-shattereing events under my watch on Golarion. Not interested, except as the potential repercussions of a failed attempt to play an Adventure Path resulting in something of this sort as a result of the PCs' failure.
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Out of curiosity (and being quite the fan of Lovecraft in Pathfinder), will there be more than the 4 Old Ones mentioned in "Rule of Fear" in the "Wake of the Watchers" article?
Many thanks...!
Yes. The Old Cults article in Pathfinder #46 details nine Great Old Ones and Outer Gods; most from Lovecraft, but two from Paizo.
You already did. The official cavalier mount list IS what's listed in the character description. More exotic animals being added to that list is up to the GM or adventure writier.The dire animal category is not strengthened by numbers. I actually wish the category would go away entirely, to be replaced by megafauna—the original "dire" animal was, after all, the dire wolf, which is a real-world prehistoric creature. The 3rd edition designers, for whatever reason, decided that putting "dire" in front of animals was a good name for "tougher" animals. My take on how to solve that would have been to have the "tougher" animals be prehistoric animals. So no dire tigers, but smilodons. No dire bears, but cave bears. And so on. I was kind of able to see this play out in Pathfinder, by giving the dire animals their proper megafauna names. Going forward, you can expect to see VERY few (probably zero) new "dire" animals show up in Pathfinder bestiaries, but you WILL see more prehistoric or completely imaginary animals showing up now and then.
So, no dire echidna or dire skunk. MAYBE a giant skunk, though.
No world-shattereing events under my watch on Golarion. Not interested, except as the potential repercussions of a failed attempt to play an Adventure Path resulting in something of this sort as a result of the PCs' failure.
Fair enough, and thank you. I just thought it would be interesting to have the PCs attempt to do something similar to picking up the pieces of another adventuring group 'failing' their Adventure Path.
Have you ever done that? Got the party to roll up new characters and start from scratch in the aftermath of the heroes losing, evil triumphs, world of crapsackiness? I find it's quite enjoyable for the Players to encounter their former Characters, still struggling on against impossible odds, in hiding, fleeing for their lives or as the penultimate kick to the teeth, having thrown their lot in with the victors .... mwuahahahahahaaaa!
If there was a world-shattering event (again) in Golarion, such as outright war between Keleshite and Taldan or a similar event, what would be your vote on the matter (and we are talking years from now, naturally, when the campaign world needs a shake up or three)? Something that would radically alter the balance of power, political, economical and militarily?No world-shattereing events under my watch on Golarion. Not interested, except as the potential repercussions of a failed attempt to play an Adventure Path resulting in something of this sort as a result of the PCs' failure.
Ya, none of this shaking up of Golarion with unnecessary events. James already has this on his plate for years to come :p
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Creative Director
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Have you ever done that? Got the party to roll up new characters and start from scratch in the aftermath of the heroes losing, evil triumphs, world of crapsackiness? I find it's quite enjoyable for the Players to encounter their former Characters, still struggling on against impossible odds, in hiding, fleeing for their lives or as the penultimate kick to the teeth, having thrown their lot in with the victors .... mwuahahahahahaaaa!
I have. In one game I was running (a modified "White Plume Mountain,") the PCs were defeated by the vampire. Rather than say it was a TPK, I had the vampire bring them "downstairs" where they were indoctrinated and then quested to go get a magic item or something out of a chamber under a Desnan monastery on an island. The PCs did that, and in so doing released an ancient powerful necromancer from his eons-long sleep. That necromnacer was one of several who ruled an ancient empire, and he escaped and started waking up his kin.
Released from the quest, the PCs realized what they'd done and went after the necromancer they released. They managed to eventually defeat him, but not before his four other minions took over four different regions of the campaign world and made themselves new necromancer empires.
(As an aside... this evil necromancer empire is the primary inspiration behind Thassilon—even some of the Runelords' names, like Krune and Belimarius came from that campaign. Other Runelords came from other parts of my game world, but some of those got all involved in the re-awakened necromancer empires too.)