Seriously . . . Dr. Hurt is probably some kind of squid sea monster demon thing that Darkseid used the Omega sanction to send back in time to screw with Bruce and has some kind of connection to his relatives or something? Really?
I have 0% faith in the fact that this was actually planned out years ago when Morrison first started talking about the Black Hand at the beginning of his Batman run. I think Morrison writes like John Edward "mediums," he throws out 100 loose ends, ties up 25, and people swear he's some kind of genius.
Given the huge mess that was Final Crisis, I have a really, really hard time believing that Final Crisis was always meant to dovetail into the stuff that was introduced at the beginning of Morrison's Batman run.
And even if we do get some kind of answer about Dr. Hurt and if Darkseid's pet pseudonatural Kraken demon has something to do with him, we'll just get some other kind of metaphysical crap obscuring insanity on top of it, and in the end, Bruce will say some gobledegook about hyperpacial meta realities where all things happen simultaneously and thus Dr Hurt is actually the shadow of a mouse that he saw on the dashboard of the Batmobile one time filtered through all possible realities and then turned inside out by Darkseid's third cousin who happens to be Joker's father, once removed . . . mystery solved!
He's what I want . . . Bruce + crime + clues + deductive skills + thugs and/or supervillain = mystery solved. This equation can be solved over as many as, say, six issues, maybe if its a really good story . . . but for the love of all that batty please . . .
Stop having Bruce plan for everything that could ever possibly happen . . .
Stop having Bruce's plans revolve around metaphysical equivalents of Rube Goldberg devices . . .
Stop saying that Bruce "experimented" on himself to understand Joker . . . He fricking dropped acid to figure out how Joker thinks . . . how in the Hell did anyone in DC's editorial staff not catch this?
Stop acting like every single Batman story ever somehow happened even if its impossible to have happened (702 implies that Neil Gaiman's "Whatever Happened to the Dark Knight" actually happened, somehow, while Bruce was jumping through time . . . and more and more writers are doing flash forward stories that are accepting the Damian as killer Batman is THE future of the current DC Universe) . . .
If Morrison made references to obscure stuff and had it make sense, or didn't hinge major parts of continuity on it, like, say, Mark Waid in Kingdom Come, I wouldn't care . . .
Grant Morrison popped out of his purple haze at SDCC and didn't see his shadow, so we've got TWO MORE YEARS of Morrison Bat stories, and with him being such a big name, that means everyone on the Bat books dances to his tunes. Two more years of Acid Dropping Meta Batman and his army of Silver Age reject junior Batmen in Batman incorporated, with Dick "evolving" away from Nightwing as deputy Batman #1 . . .
Okay, I'm sorry for the above rant. I didn't expect that Batman 702 would make any sense, but I was hoping that it would just be like most Batman stories recently and not really do anything to advance the storyline util the end of the Return of Bruce Wayne storyline . . . and then I read so many people praising how brilliant the story is. I don't get it.
If you really, really like Morrison and his take on Batman, I bear you no ill will. Life's too short to be upset because someone else likes something that doesn't strike you the right way. I just needed to vent because the Batman that I really like is at least two more years away from me, and given that Batman and Spider-Man used to be the comic book constants in my life, no matter how other books were going . . . well, I'm just a bit frustrated.
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I thought the Allstar Superman was pretty sweet, but yeah....his Batman and Robin thing I quit reading when Frank Quitely quit drawing it...I figure that's the best way to avoid Grant's tendency to crash a story into a lightpost when the "trip" ends. Enjoy the first few, then realize that he's probably never going to finish the damn story off.
I thought the Allstar Superman was pretty sweet, but yeah....his Batman and Robin thing I quit reading when Frank Quitely quit drawing it...I figure that's the best way to avoid Grant's tendency to crash a story into a lightpost when the "trip" ends. Enjoy the first few, then realize that he's probably never going to finish the damn story off.
Yeah, I actually enjoyed a lot of Batman and Robin. It was fun seeing Dick (especially thinking the gig was temporary) acting as Batman and seeing Damian grow into being Robin.
But the more the Black Glove/Thomas Wayne thing starts to tie into it, the less I want to follow it.
I don't get it. I loved JLA under Morrison. Yeah, it got weird from time to time, but he could, I don't know, resolve storylines in a way that didn't feel like he just got chemically induced ADD and skipped ahead a few chapters that only exist in his own head.
Morrison writing and influencing Bat stories is the main reason I'll more than likely be giving up on Batman titles in the near future.
I was really hoping that when Bruce came back to life Morrison would be leaving. Alas, when the whole "Batman Inc." book was announced at SDCC and Morrison said he had about two years of stories for that book in him, I died a little inside.
When one of the Batman Inc. panels mentioned Tim getting raked into some Batman Inc. missions, I was less than enthused.
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It's a terrible shame that Morrison's run on Batman has been a train wreck, because his take on Bruce during his JLA tenure was top-notch. Batman was the most dangerous member of the team, hands down, because of his humanity. On brilliance and will alone he took down anything from a pack of white martians to Darkseid. Everything the character within that series did resonated true with who he was supposed to be. But the story and characterization that Morrison has been crafting since he took over writing the eponymous title has been discordant. It's not bothering me as much as the metafictional defecation his Animal Man run was, or the WTFery of his Doom Patrol (which is only saved from being the worse thing to happen to Doom Patrol by the abortion Rachel Pollack served up right on his heels), but it's coming close.
Morrison has always been a writer to be wary of. When he's good, he's great; when he's off, he's excremental. For each JLA or X-Men run he's done, or smaller pieces like We3 or Arkham Asylum, he cranks out a dozen piles of balderdash like Final Night, The Invisibles, Fantatic Four: 1234, Sebastian O, and Seven Soldiers. It inspires nothing but dread thinking of what will happen by the end of his Batman story (that apparently requires nineteen monthly titles to tell), or in something as grandiose as the upcoming Multiversity.
Thankfully Giffen seems to have a better handle on making Doom Patrol weird without being impenetrable.
Sadly, on CBR there are people really hoping that Batman starts realizing that his world exist within a comic book, a la Animal Man.
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Sadly, on CBR there are people really hoping that Batman starts realizing that his world exist within a comic book, a la Animal Man.
That's precisely what the diagnosis was in the utterly unpleasant "What Ever Happened to the Dark Knight" that Neil Gaiman threw our way.
I'm happy that the Multiverse is back. I'm glad that some of the concepts of the Silver Age, like a young Clark Kent adventuring with The Legion, have returned. But if the punchline of this Batman run is that the "imaginary stories" are going to be part and parcel of the DCU, or some other wink-and-nod to the fourth wall like that, I'm buying a phonograph, digging out my "Merry Marvel Marching Society" 33 1/3, and switching to the other team.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Thankfully Giffen seems to have a better handle on making Doom Patrol weird without being impenetrable.
Sadly, on CBR there are people really hoping that Batman starts realizing that his world exist within a comic book, a la Animal Man.
Ugh. Likes I've said before. Give me Dick as Nightwing, Tim (With a better code name), Stephanie, and maybe Jason, and I'll be happy. Morrison's kind of ruined Bruce for me for now, by making him Bruce Wayne, Demigod.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I ranted about Grant Morrison when Batman 700 came out, and my rant still applies. The man should not be writing superhero comics. At least not mainstream, iconic characters. He should stick to quirky, mystical, supernaturally weird stuff that better suits his writing style.
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Well, since I'm a glutton for punishment, I went ahead and picked up 702. Now I can say with absolute certainty, that as long as Morrison is allowed to continue on any Batbook, and the Damian character still exists, I won't be collecting any Batbooks.
I may even have to cancel out other books as well, I notice that they are going to bring Damian into Teen Titans, so that's a book to go on the no purchase list. I hope they don't allow Morrison to influence JLA.
Except, maybe, Superman/Batman, since that's always sort of existed on its own. Same with Batman Confidential.
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Well, since I'm a glutton for punishment, I went ahead and picked up 702. Now I can say with absolute certainty, that as long as Morrison is allowed to continue on any Batbook, and the Damian character still exists, I won't be collecting any Batbooks.
I may even have to cancel out other books as well, I notice that they are going to bring Damian into Teen Titans, so that's a book to go on the no purchase list. I hope they don't allow Morrison to influence JLA.
Except, maybe, Superman/Batman, since that's always sort of existed on its own. Same with Batman Confidential.
I'm praying that Damien in the Teen Titans will be a brief guest spot where Cassie, Bart, and Connor kick his aft. Plus he's like 10 or something isn't he? It's Teen Titans, not Superhero daycare.
(And please please let Rose kick his aft physically, just like her dad did to his.)
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I ranted about Grant Morrison when Batman 700 came out, and my rant still applies. The man should not be writing superhero comics. At least not mainstream, iconic characters. He should stick to quirky, mystical, supernaturally weird stuff that better suits his writing style.
+1
I have never liked anything he's done.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Interesting: Dick gets three books
I might have to add these to my pull then. I like Dick Greyson, and while I'd rather he be Nightwing, I'm glad to see he's geting a good amount of the limelight.
Amusing speculation on how long it will take for the Brat-wonder to complain he's not playing Robin with dad?
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Interesting: Dick gets three books
That figures- want to read about the "real" Batman? Buy the new books. Want to keep getting the two series you've bought without interruption for twenty years? Stick with the scab.*
*Not an indictment of the character, merely his role played in the city. I love Dick Grayson. I'm just really horked off about this.
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*Not an indictment of the character, merely his role played in the city. I love Dick Grayson. I'm just really horked off about this.
+1. I think I'd have rather they kick Morrison to the curb, make Bruce dead for real, and let Dick just stay on as the one and only Batman.
Oh yeah, and just drop Damian. In my humble opinion, that character is so bad he doesn't even deserve a death storyline.
Haven't kept much with the bat-books since Bruce died, but now that he will be returning I was getting interested...
But then I saw the picture on that link and...
AAGGAHAGGHHHHFFGFGGGHHHHH!!!1!11!!!! What the?!? In his... A codpiece? What is this I don't even
We know subconsciosly that the suit should have a... a cup, I mean you're facing people that can crush stones with their pinky fingers so you want some protection... but that's not something I wanted to see! Where's the brain bleach?
Why did I just picture Bruce swinging in to attack some bad guy, catches him in between the thighs and as the giant armored codpieces knocks him unconscious, we get the sound effect . . . CROTCH!
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Damien must die. If he isn't killed in a very visible and total way he will no doubt return in a few years when some other writer needs an easy villain. Jason Todd anyone? Maybe SUperman goes completely insane and eats him, then flies into the sun to "release" him into the universe in a final way, which, of course, cures Superman of his insanity. A just and fitting end for that craptastic character. I see no redeaming qualities in him, nor any story value other than the occasional jab about him stabbing people (obligatory cut to Damien sneering). I vote Stephanie Brown for Robin, maybe Damien can be Batgirl after he is reincarnated from a solar flare. (It makes as much sense as some other story lines)
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While I find the character of Damien lacking, I do like the symmetry of Dick training Bruce's son. It fits the "events have come full circle" concept better than hm training anyone else.
I have enjoyed certain moments in the series, like Commissioner Gordon telling Dick that the department prefers him to the old Batman. I am waiting for Gordon to figure out who is under the cowl though. Dick dated the guy's daughter for years, so he has to be much more familiar with him than he was with Bruce.
I think he knows, just doesnt' want to admit he knows. Doesn't he know that Barbara was Batgirl?
There have been lots of hints that Jim has known for a while now.
The one thing bugging me is that Jim's just like "hey, new Batman, this guy seems okay."
Back during Knight's End/Prodigal/Troika, Jim went ballistic on Bruce because he had Azrael and then Dick take over as Batman, and never clued him in on what was going on.
Basically, Jim's problem was that he lets Bruce operate as a vigilante because Bruce and Jim trust each other. He doesn't have that trust with the "fill ins" so he was upset that Bruce just assumed Jim would fall in line.
Even if Jim figures this is Dick, and does trust him, it would be nice for him to at least point out that "whoever" is in the cowl is someone he's worked with before as Batman, or something to show what was, at the time, a fairly important development in Jim and Batman's relationship.
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Has Jason ever confronted Jim about the Joker?
I mean the guy beat Jason to death, but also paralyzed Barbara and killed Sarah. If Jason can't get Bruce to pull the trigger, I wonder if he's ever sat down with Jim over coffee.
Personally, I'd like to see more of the Riddler. I mean if anyone knows Greyson is Batman (besides Deathstroke) it's Edward Nigma.
Stéphanie ROCKSSS as batgirl, and is even more fun than Barbara was. (And I love Barbara).
Down ! with Cassandra though.
I'm a lot happier with Steph as Batgirl than I thought I would be. The series has been fun so far.
So, after Batman 703, I'm starting to get my weird, paranoid, out of left field feeling that Bruce is going to come back, reveal his secret ID, and convert his fortune, literally, into some kind of Batman Inc. organization.
I really hope I'm wrong, but the whole Viki Vale identity thing, Grant Morrison saying that there is no split between Bruce Wayne and Batman anymore, and the literal name of the series have me a bit worried.
But hey, the last time a famous super hero revealed his public identity everything turned out great right?
So, after Batman 703, I'm starting to get my weird, paranoid, out of left field feeling that Bruce is going to come back, reveal his secret ID, and convert his fortune, literally, into some kind of Batman Inc. organization.
I really hope I'm wrong, but the whole Viki Vale identity thing, Grant Morrison saying that there is no split between Bruce Wayne and Batman anymore, and the literal name of the series have me a bit worried.
But hey, the last time a famous super hero revealed his public identity everything turned out great right?
Brand New Knight, anyone?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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So, after Batman 703, I'm starting to get my weird, paranoid, out of left field feeling that Bruce is going to come back, reveal his secret ID, and convert his fortune, literally, into some kind of Batman Inc. organization.
I really hope I'm wrong, but the whole Viki Vale identity thing, Grant Morrison saying that there is no split between Bruce Wayne and Batman anymore, and the literal name of the series have me a bit worried.
But hey, the last time a famous super hero revealed his public identity everything turned out great right?
Gods I hope not. I mean anyone with two brain cells could unwrap a good chunk of the Bat Family with that knowlege. (I actually liked the bit in the Titans when they made up the Greyson/Nightwing/Kory triangle to throw the press off.)
I mean Tim has his plan to deal with Vicki (so does Damien, but we'll leave that alone). Dick seems to have an idea as well. Hopefully the 'Batman Inc.' will be to put some of the 'supernatural' fear of Batman back into the 'brand' as it were.
"Batman spotted in Paris"
"Batman stops criminals in London jewel Heist."
"Noted philanthropist Bruce Wayne's life was saved today by Batman! Misters Drake and Greyson also saved when Batman stopped Clayface..."
Basically make Batman 'everywhere' so everyone has plausable deniability.
So, after Batman 703, I'm starting to get my weird, paranoid, out of left field feeling that Bruce is going to come back, reveal his secret ID, and convert his fortune, literally, into some kind of Batman Inc. organization.
I really hope I'm wrong, but the whole Viki Vale identity thing, Grant Morrison saying that there is no split between Bruce Wayne and Batman anymore, and the literal name of the series have me a bit worried.
But hey, the last time a famous super hero revealed his public identity everything turned out great right?
Gods I hope not. I mean anyone with two brain cells could unwrap a good chunk of the Bat Family with that knowlege. (I actually liked the bit in the Titans when they made up the Greyson/Nightwing/Kory triangle to throw the press off.)
I mean Tim has his plan to deal with Vicki (so does Damien, but we'll leave that alone). Dick seems to have an idea as well. Hopefully the 'Batman Inc.' will be to put some of the 'supernatural' fear of Batman back into the 'brand' as it were.
"Batman spotted in Paris"
"Batman stops criminals in London jewel Heist."
"Noted philanthropist Bruce Wayne's life was saved today by Batman! Misters Drake and Greyson also saved when Batman stopped Clayface..."Basically make Batman 'everywhere' so everyone has plausable deniability.
Wasn't that one of his plans as described a few years ago? Basically that NOONE in their right mind would believe Bruce Wayne was Batman in the same way noone would believe Brad Pitt had an IQ above 102?
Well, Tim did the "Martian redirect" using Miss Martian in Red Robin . . . ;)
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Well, Tim did the "Martian redirect" using Miss Martian in Red Robin . . . ;)
And mentioned that Vicki wouldn't fall for the *two places at once* trick because of the existance of shapeshifters. That's why he's doing the 6 months of rehab thing. I'm hoping Batman Inc. is written to give them cover by making Batman in so many places that the 'filling in for Bruce in this Batman/Bruce Wayne appearance' isn't really plausable anymore.
OTOH, I hope Jim Gordon has hearing problems. I just read Batman Blackest Night and while Deadman is helping Barbara into the red robin plane, he says to Batman "Didn't know you and her had a thing, Greyson." With Gordon standing right behind him.
Well, Tim did the "Martian redirect" using Miss Martian in Red Robin . . . ;)And mentioned that Vicki wouldn't fall for the *two places at once* trick because of the existance of shapeshifters. That's why he's doing the 6 months of rehab thing. I'm hoping Batman Inc. is written to give them cover by making Batman in so many places that the 'filling in for Bruce in this Batman/Bruce Wayne appearance' isn't really plausable anymore.
OTOH, I hope Jim Gordon has hearing problems. I just read Batman Blackest Night and while Deadman is helping Barbara into the red robin plane, he says to Batman "Didn't know you and her had a thing, Greyson." With Gordon standing right behind him.
LOL!!!!
I think Gordon knew about Bruce being Batman for years. And Batman kenw he knew. But they kept the charade so Gordon doesn't have to send the police after Bruce, cause, you know, he is a vigilante, and that's a crime. Plausible deniability or something like that. At least that's my theory.
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"Damn Grayson, back when she was batgirl you two did *THAT* on a trapeze? And they called me a daredevil!"
Gordon's thought balloon: "NOT ... LISTENING!"
So, has it ever been mentioned as to whether Jim Gordon knows that Barbara was Batgirl? He obviously doesn't know that she's one of the DC Universe's major hacker-criminals these days.
"Damn Grayson, back when she was batgirl you two did *THAT* on a trapeze? And they called me a daredevil!"Gordon's thought balloon: "NOT ... LISTENING!"
So, has it ever been mentioned as to whether Jim Gordon knows that Barbara was Batgirl? He obviously doesn't know that she's one of the DC Universe's major hacker-criminals these days.
Oracle told her dad she was Batgirl, to which he replied "I already knew". Then she revealed she was the intel expert behind Batman (who popped in to give her grief) and that she had other operatives helping her. This was in the previous Birds of Prey series. So yes, he has a clue, he saw her set-up after all, and she showed it to him.
I think Gordon knew about Bruce being Batman for years. And Batman kenw he knew. But they kept the charade so Gordon doesn't have to send the police after Bruce, cause, you know, he is a vigilante, and that's a crime. Plausible deniability or something like that. At least that's my theory.
It has been very strongly implied more than a few times that Gordon at least suspects that Bruce Wayne is Batman. However, he never does the police work needed to make it more of a hunch for the exact reason you mention.
At the end of No Man's Land, Batman offered to reveal his identity to Gordon and Gordon refused, saying that he might already know but that he couldn't afford to *really* know. In the Hush storyline, Batman also noted that Gordon is too good a cop not to be able to figure it out.
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I think Gordon knew about Bruce being Batman for years. And Batman kenw he knew. But they kept the charade so Gordon doesn't have to send the police after Bruce, cause, you know, he is a vigilante, and that's a crime. Plausible deniability or something like that. At least that's my theory.It has been very strongly implied more than a few times that Gordon at least suspects that Bruce Wayne is Batman. However, he never does the police work needed to make it more of a hunch for the exact reason you mention.
At the end of No Man's Land, Batman offered to reveal his identity to Gordon and Gordon refused, saying that he might already know but that he couldn't afford to *really* know. In the Hush storyline, Batman also noted that Gordon is too good a cop not to be able to figure it out.
There was a very good issue of TAS where Gordon goes after The Batman and he knew all along.
When Clark told Lois, did she already know?
There was a very good issue of TAS where Gordon goes after The Batman and he knew all along.
** spoiler omitted **
Even in the epilogue there, Gordon reveals that he knows. But he couches the reveal in such a way that he never actually says, "I know who Batman is."
When Clark told Lois, did she already know?
I think she had figured it out by then, or at least come close. Similarly, Aunt May revealed that she had known Peter Parker's secret for a while when she died the first time. There seems to numerous comic book heroes who have loved ones who have pieced together their secret only to keep their mouths shut and feign innocence.