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I like the flavor of the summoner and have started building a PF Society character using that class. I particularly like the idea of custom-building a companion monster, but the huge number of choices leaves me rather confused.
I'd like to hear your opinions on whether the following build is sensible. (I say sensible rather than optimized because I'd rather not have a ten-armed freak with ten weapons. I want it to be good and thematic without pissing off the DM and my co-players.)
For the record, the halfling summoner's parents died when he was a child, and he fled into an "imaginary friend" fantasy focused on his rag doll monster Ribbons. He was about to be sent into an asylum until other people starting seeing "visions" of Ribbons. Turns out the kid's raw arcane potential attracted an outsider's attention... hence he likes to refer to himself as Sulepsi Ptolemai Qufarah the Sane nowadays.
Base form: Quadruped
Level EP Evolutions
1 3 Claws (1), Pounce (1), Reach (bite)(1)
2 4 + Skilled (Perception)(1)
3 5 - Skilled (-1), + Trip (2)
4 7 + Ability Increase (Str)(2)
5 8 + Skilled (Perception)(1)
6 9 - Skilled (-1) + Flight (2)
7 10 + Skilled (Perception)(1)
8 11 - Ability Increase (-2), - Skilled (-1), + Large (4)
9 13 + Wing Buffet (1), + Skilled (Perception)(1)
10 14 - Skilled (-1), - Wing Buffet (-1), + Limbs (arms)(2),
+ Claws (1)
11 15 + Skilled (Perception)(1)
12 16 - Skilled (-1), Elemental attacks (acid)(2)
Feats: Toughness, Power Attack, Iron Will, WF: Claws
This looks rather chaotic, I know. My greatest problem is that most of the evolutions I want cost 2 points, so I have to swap Perception in and out due to those annoying one-point increases... also, there are way too many good evolutions to be had. When I first read the list, I was sure I was going to take several Natural Armor improvements and max out the number of attacks, but give up flight for that? Or trip? In fact, I'd prefer to have flight as soon as it's available at level 5, but I can't pick any of the other evolutions to drop... maybe switch around the Strength increase? Or should I be getting a Gore instead of +Str?
As for tactics, I intend to get a wand of Shield as soon as possible and keep the squishy Ribbons alive in the early levels with that and Mage Armor. I'm getting a Bull's Strength wand after that as soon as I can afford it to shore up its pitiful Strength bonus until I get Large size.
I expect to be using most of my spells for buffing, so I should be able to get away with starting stats of S 08 D 16 C 14 I 14 W 10 X 16, right...? I like the Int for skills, especially since I'm going with Osirion ties, thus I should not suck at knowledge.
Fire away, then! :)
not that its directly related but you'd find trying to make an alchemist or witch has the exact same problem waay too many good choices hehehe.
The one thing I have noticed about the eldion is that you can't relly make a bad one , even unoptimised eldions are pretty solid units.
As far as sensible your build seems rounded to me. as for the dropping the perception in an out you can just eat the extra point you can't use and delay taking the next 2 point mod after 3rd level
or just leave out perception all together sure its a nice bonus but as you said your not trying to optimise so a loose skill bonus isn't really going to make a huge different if the swapping in an out really bugs you. (murphy's law you'll fail the perception check by less than the bonus during a level you don't have it on anyway ;) )
although personally the idea of a summoner tweaking his creation every chance he gets to optimise it kinda makes sense to me and is how I would play it.
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I've actually built a Witch (I like the class a lot), and found it much easier. Are you aware that a human Witch can start with 3 hexes thanks to the Extra Hex feat...? Slumber, Evil Eye and Cackle right out of the box...
I find the in-and-out for Perception a bit annoying, but just forfeiting that point would be worse. I have no qualms about that; I would just see it as the struggle of the eidolon's body to come to terms with the shifting energies as it grows. Each time it undergoes a major change, its sensory organ suite needs a few days or weeks to adapt itself to the new circumstances... or it might just have a bad case of the sparkles as well as a tinnitus after the exertion of growing a pair of wings. ;)
BTW, the word is "Eidolon". ;)
Two more things:
- Are the evolution spells worthwhile? They sound like fun, but even the lesser version takes up a slot that could be used for Haste instead. Sounds like a bad deal.
- I thought about Elemental Attack, which seems very tempting, but I came to the conclusion that I could buy an Amulet of Mighty Fists for that. The same could be said about the Strength increase, though, which would be even cheaper in item form. Then again, Strength increase stacks with the wand of Bull's Strength, so it's better that way.
- How important is Magic Attacks? I had it in the build at some point but took it out because I figured I could cast Magic Fang in case of need. Is that foolish? Should I invest in a +1 Amulet of Mighty Fists rather than a +1d6 acid one?
eldion is how it reads and sounds in my mind, probably will never change go figure ;)
evolution spells are a bit meh imo, as you say there are other core classic spells that can do more and can do it for everyone not just your eldion in the case of haste.
I'm very skpetical of elemental attacks for any class, I always worry about getting caught out by monster with even a basic resist 5 as it will negate the entire bonus damage.
Stenght increase stacks so is not a bad choice
magic attacks .... meh not overly critical , magic fang does the job and it only ever comes into play when is against DR/magic which is not that common .
and honestly I don't get the big deal with bypassing DR when its only 5-10 especially when getting 1 e.g. magic won't help vs cold iron, silver, adamantium etc etc
amulet of mighty fists is crazy expensive for what it offers , it can be a benefit if you eldion took a bunch of tentacles and had a huge number of attacks sicne the amulet bonus goes on all of them while magic fang only applies to 1 natural weapon
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Suggestions: These lead towards the "flank buddy from beyond..."
A) Switch Skilled (Perception) for Skilled (Acrobatics) and choose Acrobatics as one of Ribbons' class skill choices. The first skill point spent in Acrobatics nets you a +14, which is very useful when moving through threatened squares.
B) Combat Reflexes as your first feat. You want to be able to take advantage of the reach more than once a round.
C) Conditional: Precise Strike if anyone else is taking it as your second feat. It is nice to add a d6 to all your flanking attacks, but you need someone else in the party to also be in the melee and have the feat. Otherwise, Toughness as the second.
D) The Amulet of Might Fists +0 Shocking is nice for 5,000gp. Then the elemental acid attacks evolution added on top starts piling on the dice rolled with every attack.
E) Spending an extra 2 points for wingless flight means that your use of flight is a surprise. Having wings just screams "archers ready!". Invisibility + Wingless flight = a powerful backstabbing attack
Trip is not that impressive to me. Your CMB making the attack is going to be less than an average fighter until you have upgraded to a large size. The Strength bump is another on my list of "could lose" in order to get my other suggestions. And I would bounce Pounce in and out before I would bounce Skilled (Acrobatics).
Here my random comments on your build. Looks fun and reasonable. Like it ...
1. Evolution Surge Spells
This Spells are so powerfull i would not miss them. You can give an eidolon evolutions that fit your current needs.
Flying enemy -> fly
Non Poisen-emune enemy -> Poison
Figth an a small cliff top -> Push
Invisible enemy -> Blindsight
Fight in water -> Swim
I think the flexibility of this spells make them much better than a hast. Yes hast is powerfull and with a party setup with >2 melee chars + Eidolon hast will be better but without that many melee types in a party Evolution Surge will win and it fits a summoner much better ;-)
A wand or much better staff with some of the Evolution Surge spells will be the fist thing i wil get for my summoner....
2. Poison + Bite
The poison evolution is really good and i think it fits the thema.
3. Push evo + pit spells
The push evolution and the pit spells are really good early game
against non flying/teleporting opponents.
4. Keeping the Eidolon alive
The Summoner as it is should not keep the Eidolon alive at all cost. The BIG advantage of an eidolon is thats a cool fighter that can't be killed. Ok its gone till next day but you can still summon other pats.
Pushing the the eidolons AC may result in opponents switching to other targets the wizard, the low hp glasscannon rogue or to YOU.
So wands to keep the AC of a Eidolon in the range of a fighter is not a good option in my eyes.
Keeping them "alive" is much so easy. If your eidolon is about to die ... dismiss ... summon other pet next round ... after the fight resummon eidolon. ;-)
gl + hf
Breiti
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Thanks for your suggestions!
@ Elyza:
I think I still prefer Perception over Acrobatics, since Acro can be avoided by 5-foot stepping or being invisible, but nothing replaces avoiding an ambush or finding the hidden loot...
As for tripping, the CMB might not be that good, but hey, it's free! It's part of my regular damage-dealing routine, and it even triggers on AoOs, of which I might get a few thanks to reach. Even if the chance of tripping is just 1/3 or 1/4, it's still a powerful debuff, causing one or more AoOs and costing the enemy a move action.
Combat reflexes is a good idea, I'll switch that in at 3rd level. I can't afford not to take Toughness at 1st because it will be a PFS eidolon that would otherwise start at 6 HP (!).
I don't see the point in wingless flight. Sure, it's way cooler, but the benefit appears minimal. I don't think I'll draw too much archer aggro since I'll be pouncing and full-attacking in melee all the time. The main benefit of flight is that it allows Sulepsi to ride it. At-will flight at level 5 is very nice.
As for losing the Strength upgrade, yeah, I've been wondering about that too. Is it better to get Gore or Elemental Attacks instead? But Strength affects all my attacks... it's like getting a +1 weapon. Hard choice.
@ Breiti:
Good point, I might just keep a scroll of Lesser Evolution Surge at hand for such cases. But in general it's likely too situational to take up one of my precious spell slots.
Excellent point about keeping the eidolon alive. I don't have to wait until it's dead for the day, just until it drops to negatives or (later in the game) to single digits. Then use the SLA until the encounter's over, then heal Ribbons back up. Genius! Too bad it takes a standard action to dismiss it. Ah well, it will still be able to make a full attack before I do. The party will just be missing one meat shield for one round before my SLA summon comes up. Depending on how commonly this happens, I might really want to get Augment Summoning at 3rd level rather than 5th.
I will still want to keep Mage Armor on him, though. A starting AC of 14 is just painful. I don't think the enemy will just ignore him if he pounces about the battlefield with his 3 attacks. I might keep the Shield wand for myself and for emergencies, though.
