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Are Prestige Awards there for the Pathfinder go-getter just to get around magic item access restrictions? It seems that whatever chronicle access a character gets means little if he is able to get all his allowed PA and access much more valuable items.
The Chronicle rewards in general allow you to access Items earlier then waiting for PA.
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Are Prestige Awards there for the Pathfinder go-getter just to get around magic item access restrictions? It seems that whatever chronicle access a character gets means little if he is able to get all his allowed PA and access much more valuable items.The Chronicle rewards in general allow you to access Items earlier then waiting for PA.
And occasionally cheaper.
The PA are not to get around item access restrictions. They are the mechanism within PFS to basically award item access.
The Chronicle rewards in general allow you to access Items earlier then waiting for PA.
I have not found this to be the case in my experience, with only very rare exceptions. Lower-level chronicles seem to be jam-packed with relatively inexpensive scrolls and potions, and not much else.
It's possible that my experience is skewed by playing a lot of Season 0 scenarios, I suppose.
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The Chronicle rewards in general allow you to access Items earlier then waiting for PA.I have not found this to be the case in my experience, with only very rare exceptions. Lower-level chronicles seem to be jam-packed with relatively inexpensive scrolls and potions, and not much else.
It's possible that my experience is skewed by playing a lot of Season 0 scenarios, I suppose.
I have seen plenty Tier 1-2 Scenrios have Magic Items Scrolls and Potions you usuually can't afford because of the lack of PA on the award list. The last few I handed out had Potions of Cure Moderate Wounds and Cloak of protections +1, both you can't get with a starting character.
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The PA system is meant to promote roleplaying. It gives players a reason pay attention to the details rather than just the fights.
Yes the benefit is there to encourge a player to get as many as possible for item and favor access. This is the carrot to make them relevant.
However this isn't the point. The point it to enjoy the fact that each mod has a bit of special flavor that applies to your choosen sub group.
Some of the best experiences I have had playing PFS have been the execution faction missions or the failure to complete the mission.
Now if we ever get the chance to see the impact of these side missions play into the overall story line or perhaps faction only adventures that would be really cool.
The comments I have seen on the board lately remind me of someone taking a cross country drive with a blindfold on. Yes you get to where you want to be, but you completely miss the view.
I have seen plenty Tier 1-2 Scenrios have Magic Items Scrolls and Potions you usuually can't afford because of the lack of PA on the award list. The last few I handed out had Potions of Cure Moderate Wounds and Cloak of protections +1, both you can't get with a starting character.The Chronicle rewards in general allow you to access Items earlier then waiting for PA.I have not found this to be the case in my experience, with only very rare exceptions. Lower-level chronicles seem to be jam-packed with relatively inexpensive scrolls and potions, and not much else.
It's possible that my experience is skewed by playing a lot of Season 0 scenarios, I suppose.
A potion of CMW is available after getting 4 PA, and a cloak of protection +1 is available after 9 PA. That's pretty darn quick, in my opinion (depending on how fast you earn PA, I suppose).
Here's what I got in my first half a dozen chronicles (not mentioning any names):
#1 -- potion, scroll, scroll, scroll (all <300 gp)
#2 -- potion, scroll (all <300 gp)
#3 -- scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll (one expensive scroll)
#4 -- nothing new at all
#5 -- potion, scroll
#6 -- my first season 1 adventure: cloak, amulet, brooch, potion, potion, scroll; compared to season 0 adventures, that's really hitting the jackpot!
Now I don't even bother checking the chronicle sheet half the time; unless it's something really good like a Headband of Intelligence +4, my wizard doesn't want it.
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A potion of CMW is available after getting 4 PA, and a cloak of protection +1 is available after 9 PA. That's pretty darn quick, in my opinion (depending on how fast you earn PA, I suppose).
Just for a quick point of reference, the cloak of protection +1 would take you at least 5 sessions to be able to buy via PA (assuming you get 2 PA per, which isn't always a safe assumption). However, you probably have the gold to buy it off your Chronicle after 3 (assuming tier 1-2 payouts).
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I have not found this to be the case in my experience, with only very rare exceptions. Lower-level chronicles seem to be jam-packed with relatively inexpensive scrolls and potions, and not much else.
I have found the opposite.
For example: I have found access to individual Holy arrows (360 gp each), but only a limited number. I would need to have 36 PA (23,000 gp) to be able to purchase the a quiver (50) Holy arrows (18,001 gp). My character is 5th level with around 18 PA. It will be a looonnngggg time before I can afford that kind of purchase.
The PA system is meant to promote roleplaying. It gives players a reason pay attention to the details rather than just the fights.
/snip/
Some of the best experiences I have had playing PFS have been the execution faction missions or the failure to complete the mission.
Sorry, but this is just wrong. Many, many times I have failed to get my full PA because I didn't have a good Charisma bonus/my character isn't a good 'face' person. I took good notes, I role played it well, basically I did everything I could-with help-and I didn't get the PA because I couldn't make a Cha based roll. IF the system let the GM make a judgment call on good roleplaying if the character failed a skill/ability roll to earn their PA, then the system might be a little fairer.
All my bad experiences with PFS revolve around PA awards. 1) I did what I was asked to do and the GM read the details differently (or the info in the GM section was different). 2) I've failed roles but done everything I'm suppose to do. Often it's not cut and dry. For your first PA you need to do job 1. But for your second PA you need to do job 2, 3 and 4. If you do job 2 & 3 but fail 4, you don't get your PA. For these reasons I don't like the PA system. But the expected equipment level is built around the PA system. I will never be able to purchase good equipment if I don't have PA. It's the one thing that I absolutely hate about PFS. Those that can earn their PA most/all of the time can purchase anything. Those of us that can't, are left in the dust.
Lastly, and slightly off topic, I have seen several faction missions (not my faction) which basically is turning the Pathfinders into an Assassins Guild. 'Go out and kill Mr. Burns'. To me that is very different from 'reports say a troll is attacking Hobbits on the East Road. Do your best to stop them.' As an Andoran, I'm not suppose to look the other way when someone is going to be assassinated. I should try to bring them to justice. But I can't because that promotes player vs player. This isn't a problem specifically with the PA system, but the missions that the authors are writing.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
I have not found this to be the case in my experience, with only very rare exceptions. Lower-level chronicles seem to be jam-packed with relatively inexpensive scrolls and potions, and not much else.I have found the opposite.
For example: I have found access to individual Holy arrows (360 gp each), but only a limited number. I would need to have 36 PA (23,000 gp) to be able to purchase the a quiver (50) Holy arrows (18,001 gp). My character is 5th level with around 18 PA. It will be a looonnngggg time before I can afford that kind of purchase.
I haven't seen anything like that yet. But as I said, there are (very) rare exceptions, and my experience is mostly with season 0 mods.
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IF the system let the GM make a judgment call on good roleplaying
One handy rule to keep under your belt is the Fiat Rule—simply grant a player a +2 or a –2 bonus or penalty to a die roll if no one at the table is precisely sure how a situation might be handled by the rules.
There was something similar to this in 3.5. Essentially the GM is free to assign special circumstance bonuses as he or she sees fit.
Whether right or wrong, at my table if players come up with unique ways of approaching their faction missions I will often grant them small bonuses and then still require a die roll. The more effort they put into solving their mission, often the higher the bonus, but there almost always should be a chance for failure.
That said, if their 7 charisma ranger is going to need to be diplomatic, I will often encourage that player to seek help if possible. "In order to properly establish a viable trade route, you should seek out a professional negotiator or ask a more convincing party member for help."
There are times that no matter how convincing a player can be, their character could never convince the NPC as needed.
"Sir, you present a very convincing argument, however, I find your odor extremely offensive and could never see myself or my colleagues doing business with you. Good day!"
As a player you should realize that if you built an idiot (INT 7), you're going to need help if a mission requires specialized knowledge. As a GM, you should work with your players to help them accomplish these tasks. A computer could simply ask the player for a die roll, go a step farther and interact with your players.
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Remember folks, you're only supposed to spend half your gold on one magic item. Please take that into consideration when determining how much PA is too much or not enough.Huh?... I can spend all my Gold on one Magic Item if I want, if I have the PA and gold...
You're right, you can, but I believe the PA system is designed to allow you to be able to spend up to half your cumulative gold at any given point.
For example, I recently leveled my main character to level 7. Had not bought anything big in gp value and had about 23,000 gp on hand. Mainly because this is also my GM character and I have twice as many GM chronicles as I have played chronicles for this character. At that level I have 28 PA, enough to get a 11,750 gp item. Half of my cumulative gold. This is what I meant by half your gold into one item. Sorry for the confusion.
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I have not found this to be the case in my experience, with only very rare exceptions. Lower-level chronicles seem to be jam-packed with relatively inexpensive scrolls and potions, and not much else.I have found the opposite.
For example: I have found access to individual Holy arrows (360 gp each), but only a limited number. I would need to have 36 PA (23,000 gp) to be able to purchase the a quiver (50) Holy arrows (18,001 gp). My character is 5th level with around 18 PA. It will be a looonnngggg time before I can afford that kind of purchase.
The PA system is meant to promote roleplaying. It gives players a reason pay attention to the details rather than just the fights.
/snip/
Some of the best experiences I have had playing PFS have been the execution faction missions or the failure to complete the mission.Sorry, but this is just wrong. Many, many times I have failed to get my full PA because I didn't have a good Charisma bonus/my character isn't a good 'face' person. I took good notes, I role played it well, basically I did everything I could-with help-and I didn't get the PA because I couldn't make a Cha based roll. IF the system let the GM make a judgment call on good roleplaying if the character failed a skill/ability roll to earn their PA, then the system might be a little fairer.
All my bad experiences with PFS revolve around PA awards. 1) I did what I was asked to do and the GM read the details differently (or the info in the GM section was different). 2) I've failed roles but done everything I'm suppose to do. Often it's not cut and dry. For your first PA you need to do job 1. But for your second PA you need to do job 2, 3 and 4. If you do job 2 & 3 but fail 4, you don't get your PA. For these reasons I don't like the PA system. But the expected equipment level is built around the PA system. I will never be able to purchase good equipment if I don't have PA. It's the one thing that I absolutely...
Apparently the judges you have had do not get into the spirit of it as we do in NY
Josh has stated that the expectation and access model is that players will get 1 PA per mod. The extra PA is a bonus. Expecting to have a character who is built to get evey point is unrealistic. I will concede that many times the faction mission should be clearer especially if stealth is involved.
Also playing you scratch my back with other players is perfectly acceptable.
For a while we would trick other factions into completing our missions.
My favorite was having the Taldor rogue plant evidence to implicate Taldor for a crime
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That said, if their 7 charisma ranger is going to need to be diplomatic, I will often encourage that player to seek help if possible. "In order to properly establish a viable trade route, you should seek out a professional negotiator or ask a more convincing party member for help."
There are times that no matter how convincing a player can be, their character could never convince the NPC as needed.
"Sir, you present a very convincing argument, however, I find your odor extremely offensive and could never see myself or my colleagues doing business with you. Good day!"
As a player you should realize that if you built an idiot (INT 7), you're going to need help if a mission requires specialized knowledge. As a GM, you should work with your players to help them accomplish these tasks. A computer could simply ask the player for a die roll, go a step farther and interact with your players.
All true. That said, it seems that many of the missions that I have received for Andoran have been diplomatic type missions, requiring Diplomacy, Bluff, etc. Skills a low charisma ranger doesn't have (well maybe I should now). That's not how I build my ranger.
Ideally, I guess, I wish that there were three missions available for the GM to choose from. The basic mission that each faction gets, and then the GM can choose between one of two others for each faction/player. Like an action mission (get this/do this) or a people mission (diplomacy, threaten, etc.) But that's more work for the authors and the GMs. Also, I guess, I can see it as the only reason a faction would give a smelly half-orc a diplomatic mission would be because they didn't have anyone else.
Note: The last game that I didn't earn the 2nd PA in (2 mods ago) I did everything RP wise with help and still didn't make the rolls. The DM did his best but the mod was written such-n-such and my rolls were single digit.
-Swiftbrook
All true. That said, it seems that many of the missions that I have received for Andoran have been diplomatic type missions, requiring Diplomacy, Bluff, etc. Skills a low charisma ranger doesn't have (well maybe I should now). That's not how I build my ranger.That said, if their 7 charisma ranger is going to need to be diplomatic, I will often encourage that player to seek help if possible. "In order to properly establish a viable trade route, you should seek out a professional negotiator or ask a more convincing party member for help."
There are times that no matter how convincing a player can be, their character could never convince the NPC as needed.
"Sir, you present a very convincing argument, however, I find your odor extremely offensive and could never see myself or my colleagues doing business with you. Good day!"
As a player you should realize that if you built an idiot (INT 7), you're going to need help if a mission requires specialized knowledge. As a GM, you should work with your players to help them accomplish these tasks. A computer could simply ask the player for a die roll, go a step farther and interact with your players.
I would like to point out that the Guide has the first step for making a character to be picking your Faction for a reason. Once you know your faction, then you can at least sort of build your character around that idea, so that you are more likely to be able to complete the types of missions that faction would give you. In other words, don't plan on making a physical character and then pick a faction that is more likely to give you non-combat missions.
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In other words, don't plan on making a physical character and then pick a faction that is more likely to give you non-combat missions.
Agreed, but in the players' defense it's not exactly clear what types of skill checks will be needed for a given faction. The same type of missions from one scenario to the next may require completely different things (like knowledge(local) vs. diplomacy). This is where GMs need to step up and reward creative solutions as per the guide itself, while at the same time not being a push-over an giving everyone 2 PA "because they tried real hard and were creative." Players shouldn't be able to completely overcome their character's weaknesses, but they should be allowed to discover ways around them. That's nearly the same thing in real life. Not good at math and need to figure something out? Find someone who is, or find a tool that will help.
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Sorry, but this is just wrong. Many, many times I have failed to get my full PA because I didn't have a good Charisma bonus/my character isn't a good 'face' person. I took good notes, I role played it well, basically I did everything I could-with help-and I didn't get the PA because I couldn't make a Cha based roll. IF the system let the GM make a judgment call on good roleplaying if the character failed a skill/ability roll to earn their PA, then the system might be a little fairer.
Bingo.
In PFS, Dip check > Rollplay
:(
Getting a decent Diplomacy check is important, but most GMs take roleplay into account. In fact, the org play guide specifically instructs them to reward player ingenuity.
However, it is still important to have some numerical value in place to set the difficulty, which may surpass someone's good roleplay. And roleplay should not get someone out of a situation where they have failed to invest in the necessary skills, and used Charisma as a dump stat (which happens very often).
This same logic works in reverse: there are always ways for a shy person to accomplish a Diplomacy mission, or an overtired person to solve a puzzle, because a Skill check with a DC is involved.
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Good Player roleplay should qualify for the generic +2 bonus for "favorable circumstances". It won't replace a Diplomacy check, but it will (or should) give a tangible numberical bonus.
Also noted by Josh (I can find the thread if anybody questions this), a GM can waive the check altogether if it makes sense to do so. For example a PA reward that requires a DC 20 stealth check where a "web" spell has been spread across the room creating full concealment from anybody seeing what you're doing.
The system by no means assumes 100% success on missions and you are expected to fail missions every now and then. Yes, sometimes you will fail that mission because your character isn't skilled correctly to complete it.
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And roleplay should not get someone out of a situation where they have failed to invest in the necessary skills, and used Charisma as a dump stat (which happens very often).
This, SO THIS! I have had some role-playing friends that have stronger forces of personality that often dump-stat CHA. They then periodically get annoyed when I won't let them just RP their way through face-encounters. I tend to play face-type characters (I like to talk ... >.>), but I invest in an above average charisma score OR accept failures when my characters with average charisma can't make the checks (some of the characters are actually designed that way ... they like to talk ... they just tend to alienate people when they do!).
Anyway, what Josh said. If every faction mission is easy, where's the fun? I just enjoy PLAYING the faction missions. In my opinion, they defintely add more flavor and fun to the scenarios. Sometimes the Pathfinder mission is just an afterthought to my character (hey, got my faction missions done successfully, everything else is gravy!) and other times I have thoughts of intentionally failing a faction mission, because that is what my character would do (magic-user-hating cavalier nearly offed an enemy NPC he was supposed to spare ... luckily for him their was another Taldan there to talk him down).
Anyway, as someone else above posted, pick your faction first and build a character around it. I have characters built for four of the five factions ... I just need more chances to play them! :)
Fixed your quote tags, Talbanus. When you click reply to quote one author, make sure you remove the BBcode that quotes that other authors too. :-)
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I haven't seen anything like that yet. But as I said, there are (very) rare exceptions, and my experience is mostly with season 0 mods.I have not found this to be the case in my experience, with only very rare exceptions. Lower-level chronicles seem to be jam-packed with relatively inexpensive scrolls and potions, and not much else.I have found the opposite.
For example: I have found access to individual Holy arrows (360 gp each), but only a limited number. I would need to have 36 PA (23,000 gp) to be able to purchase the a quiver (50) Holy arrows (18,001 gp). My character is 5th level with around 18 PA. It will be a looonnngggg time before I can afford that kind of purchase.
I was going to point this out also since I've seen similar things. I couldn't recall if PFS allowed you to buy individual arrows normally though. I've also seen partially charged wands which IMO is a good find on a chronicle sheet. I am VERY happy when I see a useful partially charged wand come up which is unfortunately fairly rare.
Edit: Looking through one characters chronicles I found the following items which would likely be unavailable otherwise:
I've also seen the following items are never available unless on chronicles:
This is from my one 4th level character. So there is a decent amount of stuff in the chronicles that you get access to early or wouldn't be able to get otherwise.
I couldn't recall if PFS allowed you to buy individual arrows normally though.
Nope. :-)
This is from my one 4th level character. So there is a decent amount of stuff in the chronicles that you get access to early or wouldn't be able to get otherwise.
I'm starting to suspect that it's just a matter of my playing a lot of season 0 scenarios vs. season 1 scenarios.