Last night our group left a forest we were adventuring in and started trekking across nearby plains.
Soon we found columns of smoke rising into the air and my character (archer ranger) and our party's goblin rogue archer, scouted ahead to investigate.
It looked as though there had been some kind of brush fire that had since gone out.
Suddenly, we came upon a well-armed and armored troll some 300 feet off in the distance (luckily, we had made our spot checks and were being sneaky). He was holding a battered woman over his shoulder and walking away from us. We couldn't tell if the woman was alive or dead, but we didn't want to pass up the chance to rescue her if she was still alive, so we open fired via long range sniping.
My goblin friend rolled something like 26 on his Stealth roll (even with the -20 penalty), whereas I got a 4 post sniping.
We both figured this would be fine considering the vast difference between us giving the troll a -30 penalty on his Perception check to spot us.
The GM suddenly declared that he was going to ignore the range penalties and, as such, my ranger had been spotted.
The GM claimed that he didn't like the penalty to perception for range rule, because it was nonsensical (in that you would never be able to see anyone past 100 feet or so). I told him that, that was precisely why I never used it EXCEPT for combat situations in my games where people are too distracted with self preservation to worry about thing that aren't "right there."
He still thought it unfair as he, apparently, didn't apply the range penalties to us to spot the troll in the first place. I said that, that was probably fine as combat hadn't started yet anyways at that point. It really doesn't make sense to apply the penalty in many situations and I didn't believe it to be the game designer's intent to use the penalties in normal non-combat situations.
Anyways, what I want to know is how you (as a player or as a GM) might have handled this situation, this rule.
I put a maximum of +20 to DC due of distance, a natural 20 on Perception is a success unless the target is hidding, and I roll Perception every round.
Seeing someone at a long distance in an instant is difficult, it usually takes some time to discern what are you seeing, but after a while you always do. That houserule does the trick imo.
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I put a maximum of +20 to DC due of distance, a natural 20 on Perception is a success unless the target is hidding, and I roll Perception every round.
Seeing someone at a long distance in an instant is difficult, it usually takes some time to discern what are you seeing, but after a while you always do. That houserule does the trick imo.
I would have still taken the Perception penalties into account, but being tall would give the troll a bonus in this instance since he would be better able to see above the grass and see the player's indentations in the field.
But, he's the DM, give him a little lee-way once in a while. We like to get our ya-yas in by dropping a few PCs to negative HP every other sessions or so.
But, he's the DM, give him a little lee-way once in a while. We like to get our ya-yas in by dropping a few PCs to negative HP every other sessions or so.
In that same session our GM got his "ya-yas" many times over. My ranger was dropped 3 times, the party evoker was killed outright, and two other PCs were knocked out once each. Only the goblin was spared the entire night simply because the enemies could never find his stealthy butt.
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Also, recall that unless the troll has a reason to be making active perception checks every round, he's probably "taking 10" all the time. If he's distracted, there's like a penalty (-5?) on that as well. This eliminates the silly situation of a bored sentry standing there not really paying attention but then rolling a natural 20 at the exact moment your PC tries to sneak by.
PCs should also take ten on their perception - as a GM I always just give my players the results of a take-ten perception check without bothering to ask them for a roll. Speeds play, and then lets them roll if they want more detail.
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We play the rules as-is.
My character has this feat:
"Lookout (General) (Source: Ultimate Feats)
You are capable of spotting creatures, vessels, and other objects from a great distance, providing you have an elevated position from which to survey your surroundings.
Benefit: For every five feet of elevation above the terrain you are observing, you triple the distance you can see without penalty to your Spot checks. For example, if you were standing in a 10-foot-tall crow's nest, you could see up to 60 feet without penalty, or up to 120 feet at -1, up to 240 feet at -2, and so on.
Normal: Characters who lack this feat incur a -1 penalty for every 10 feet of distance between themselves and the creature or object they are attempting to spot."
...which is nice since he's usually flying 100' up in the air.
Interesting feat. Might have been able to use such a thing considering I was a balloon.
We eventually regrouped with our fellow party members. After a few failed attempts to shoot the troll, it went prone and hid in the tall grass. Rather than risk it getting the jump on us we decided to get reinforcements.
We ended up taking the troll down by casting spike growth all around it but for a narrow path alongside it (which it couldn't see). Our party cavalier then hit it over and over again with his spirited charge'd lance (down the safe path he knew to be there). My ranger archer used his boots of levitation to float 30 feet above the battlefield and was tied to the cavalier's horse like a floating balloon. I pelted him with deadly aim/rapid shot arrows from the air while our goblin rogue hit him with arrow sniping and sneak attack from the ground. Our party evoker put the pressure on with flaming spheres.
Between the invisible spikes tearing him apart and all the attacks coming in from different directions and elevations, the poor troll had no chance at all.
What about the woman?
She replaced the evoker that got killed in an earlier encounter. She turned out to also be an evoker with nearly identical stats. :P