| 7 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Correct me if I am wrong.
1) Levels in master chymist increase your bomb damage, but not your bombs per day.
2) Levels in master chymist do NOT count towards level perquisites for discoveries (nor does it grant you additional discoveries). I.E - An alchemist 7/master chymist 10 cannot pick up fast bombs since he doesn't have 8 levels in alchemist.
3) Master chymist levels do NOT increase the duration of one's mutagens.
4) Master chymist exchanges your ability to use extracts and skills for slightly high base attack bonus and hit points (an unfair trade most of the time from the looks of it) AND gives you a penalizing class ability (the inability to control your mutagenic form).
5) The DCs for nearly all of your abilities do NOT increase with master chymist levels.
Why would anyone take this prestige class? There seems to be so little synergy.
I can understand some of these limitations (the reduced extracts), but others don't seem to make sense for the class' theme (less bombs per day and lowered mutagen duration do little to promote the violent physical type).
There are other small things that don't sit well with me, but I have to get to work. I may bring them up later.
Also, I'm aware that the master chymist shouldn't get everything lest the opposite situation be true (why not play a master chymist?).
Correct me if I am wrong.
6) On the levels where the master chymist does NOT gain increased caster level for extracts, he also does NOT gain a new extract known.
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1) Apparently
2) Also yes
3) "In this form, she gains all the bonuses and penalties of her mutagen and adds together her alchemist and master chymist levels together to determine her effective alchemist level for the duration of this form." - p 268 under "Mutate" - Due to additional uses of the ability the Chymst has three times the duration in mutagen form at 1st level, four times the duration at 5th level, etc... At 14th level the alchemist gains persistent mutagen but by then the Chymst has 40 minutes per level and it can be broken up into 4 durations throughout the day. Also if they get hit with dispel magic they can use their form again.
4) This is worded the same as most wizard and sorcerer prestige classes which generally get additional spells known.
5) Yes
6) See 4
Master Chymst highlights the mutagens and more beastial aspects of the class at the expense of other class features. If you are wanting to be the bombing dude it's not the class you want to take. If you are looking to tear things limb from limb with your bare hands it's not terrible. There are some issues with it but it's pretty decent for that.
In addition to what you mentioned Master Cymst also gets a scaling damage bonus on all simple and natural weapons; the above mentioned multiple changes per day and extended duration from that; plus the Mutate ability is an Su and doesn't provoke an AoO.
There are some other weirdnesses with the class, namely alchemist levels stack with this to determine what advanced mutagens you can qualify for but your Chymst levels don't stack for gaining alchemist discoveries. Essentially it's a one way trip, when you return to Alchemist it's a little disappointing.
Overall it's not bad if you want to be Mr. Hyde but your bombing is pretty stunted and there is some high level (18-20th) weirdness/ wimpiness.
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3) "In this form, she gains all the bonuses and penalties of her mutagen and adds together her alchemist and master chymist levels together to determine her effective alchemist level for the duration of this form." - p 268 under "Mutate" - Due to additional uses of the ability the Chymst has three times the duration in mutagen form at 1st level, four times the duration at 5th level, etc... At 14th level the alchemist gains persistent mutagen but by then the Chymst has 40 minutes per level and it can be broken up into 4 durations throughout the day. Also if they get hit with dispel magic they can use their form again.
Mutate (and Mutagen) are both Supernatural Abilities.
As per the Core Book: Pg 554
"...A supernatural ability's effect cannont be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells."
However the effects of Extracts can be dispelled, and Mutate & Mutagen are both supressed while inside an anti-magic field.
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Yeah, there's a lot more synergy for multiclass alchemists than pure alchemists. This prestige class is probably intended for people who prefer the mutagen and extract features, which feel somewhat underpowered compared to the bombs.
Very much this.
To me the bombs always felt like a tacked on feature of the alchemist class that instead ended up dominating the power-structure of the PC. I personally was hoping that they would go for a system like the ranger has in choosing what "path" they want to take and then get different abilities based off of that, but alas it seems more people were into the whole "I'm going to fly 30 feet above the battlefield and drop bombs on enemies" than wanted to play the "RahoooHEEWWwWOAhhhhAH!!! By the time I am done with you will be in no less than 12 pieces."
Personally I don't see why they added any kind of bomb scaling to the class at all, it is not like when the Cymst goes mutagen he suddenly loses the ability. I would have preferred more shapeshifting abilities and a better will save.
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I would have preferred more shapeshifting abilities and a better will save.Hehe, yep! A better will save would have been nice. Currently it is the bane of my two alchemists (one Strangelob, the other Mr. Hyde). Iron Will is definitely required.
Dual mind is a really neat way to patch up the hole here as well but it has a heavy cost of one of your advanced mutagens...
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Mutate (and Mutagen) are both Supernatural Abilities.
As per the Core Book: Pg 554
"...A supernatural ability's effect cannont be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells."However the effects of Extracts can be dispelled, and Mutate & Mutagen are both supressed while inside an anti-magic field.
Good catch, I'd forgotten about supernaturals being unable to be dispelled.
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3) I think the answer is yes. An Alchemist 8/Master Chymist 3 should have the following.
Mutagen: duration 80min. (as Mutagen duration is not affected by the Master Chymist levels)
Mutate 2/day: each duration 110min. (as Mutate duration adds Alchemist & Master Chymist levels together)
Does the mutate require less action(until I hear otherwise, it seems like the standard for swallowing a mutagen doesn't include retrieval like the Bomb feature)? If it's easier to mutate than to down a mutagen, I could see the rationale for separating the durations. Also, I vaguely recall something about mutate and mutagen benefits allowing for different or multiple effects by combining the two, but I'm probably mistaken about that.
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I would have preferred more shapeshifting abilities and a better will save.Hehe, yep! A better will save would have been nice. Currently it is the bane of my two alchemists (one Strangelob, the other Mr. Hyde). Iron Will is definitely required.
It's definitely strange having a 'caster' type character with a bad will save.
My favorite solution to poor will saves is to grab a potion of heroism at 4th level and use Alchemical Extraction to get a +2 on all your attacks and saves. You only get 50 minutes per shot though which is a bit of a bummer.
Dual mind is very nice.
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Does the mutate require less action(until I hear otherwise, it seems like the standard for swallowing a mutagen doesn't include retrieval like the Bomb feature)? If it's easier to mutate than to down a mutagen, I could see the rationale for separating the durations. Also, I vaguely recall something about mutate and mutagen benefits allowing for different or multiple effects by combining the two, but I'm probably mistaken about that.3) I think the answer is yes. An Alchemist 8/Master Chymist 3 should have the following.
Mutagen: duration 80min. (as Mutagen duration is not affected by the Master Chymist levels)
Mutate 2/day: each duration 110min. (as Mutate duration adds Alchemist & Master Chymist levels together)
It doesn't allow for the benefit of multiple effects but it GREATLY improves the adaptability of the Chymist. As a normal alchemist you only have 1 mutagen a day unless you take infuse mutagen which allows you to make additional at the cost of 1000g per and 2 int damage. This means you will only be using the ability once or maybe twice a day unless you just have tons of gold lying around. A Chymist however gets 2 extra mutates (with no extra preparation time in the morning) each day. Additionally this action does not provoke AOO like drinking the mutagen normally would.
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Does the mutate require less action(until I hear otherwise, it seems like the standard for swallowing a mutagen doesn't include retrieval like the Bomb feature)? If it's easier to mutate than to down a mutagen, I could see the rationale for separating the durations. Also, I vaguely recall something about mutate and mutagen benefits allowing for different or multiple effects by combining the two, but I'm probably mistaken about that.3) I think the answer is yes. An Alchemist 8/Master Chymist 3 should have the following.
Mutagen: duration 80min. (as Mutagen duration is not affected by the Master Chymist levels)
Mutate 2/day: each duration 110min. (as Mutate duration adds Alchemist & Master Chymist levels together)
Mutate is an Su and doesn't require any quaffing, so it's a standard action.
At 10 minutes per level it's probably not a big issue either way though, except at the lowest levels you aren't going to be using an action in combat to use mutagen. It is nice to have the option to mutate without a mutagen though.
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It doesn't allow for the benefit of multiple effects but it GREATLY improves the adaptability of the Chymist. As a normal alchemist you only have 1 mutagen a day unless you take infuse mutagen which allows you to make additional at the cost of 1000g per and 2 int damage. This means you will only be using the ability once or maybe twice a day unless you just have tons of gold lying around. A Chymist however gets 2 extra mutates (with no extra preparation time in the morning) each day. Additionally this action does not provoke AOO like drinking the mutagen normally would.
An alchemist can only maintain one dose of mutagen at a time. Infuse Mutagen lets him maintain more than one, with the cost of 2pts of Int damage and 1000gp for each additional mutagen you want to have on hand.
If you don't have Infuse Mutagen, once you have consumed your mutagen (and thus no longer maintaining a does) you could in theory start making the next one. However since it takes an hour to brew, you might have some issues asking for an hour of downtime after each encounter to brew up.
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If anything my big gripe about Master Chymst is the advanced mutagens fall short at high levels.
Burly -> Scaling bonus to CMB and CMD, but nothing else really makes this a particularly grapple/ CMB friendly class
Disguise -> Pass off as normal while in mutagen form ?? Seems like the few times you could benefit from this you could just switch to your normal form.
Draconic Mutagen -> Energy resistance and a breath weapon? Meh.
Dual Mind -> This is good.
Evasion -> Always good.
Extended Mutagen -> By the time Chymst can get thus they already have > 4.5 hours (90 minutes * 3) of use... meh.
Feral -> Most Chymsts already have this
Furious -> Not terrible, not amazing either.
Grand -> This is excellent.
Greater -> This is excellent.
Growth -> Good... but by then you have giant form which kicks ass versus this :(
Night Vision -> ?? eh 2nd level extract or cheap magic item
Nimble -> Bonus to skill checks, CMD, and ?Natural armor? not bad but... ???
Restoring Change -> mediocre healing 3-6 times per day
Scent -> Not horrible but there is a low level extract that gets you this for hours/ day
Six are decent but nothing compares to eternal potion and elixir of life. You also delay entry to giant form, and twin form...
More or less I like Master Chymst a lot unless your group is going to go over 16th level... in which case you're probably better sticking with alchy.
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4) Master chymist exchanges your ability to use extracts and skills for slightly high base attack bonus and hit points (an unfair trade most of the time from the looks of it) AND gives you a penalizing class ability (the inability to control your mutagenic form).
Where does it say you can't cotrol your alter-ego? The Mutagenic Form even says the "Jekyle" of the two has the same basic goals as the "Hyde" of the two.
It looks to me like the control of both is still in the hands of the player, but perhaps I'm misreading what you're trying to say?
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4) Master chymist exchanges your ability to use extracts and skills for slightly high base attack bonus and hit points (an unfair trade most of the time from the looks of it) AND gives you a penalizing class ability (the inability to control your mutagenic form).Where does it say you can't cotrol your alter-ego? The Mutagenic Form even says the "Jekyle" of the two has the same basic goals as the "Hyde" of the two.
It looks to me like the control of both is still in the hands of the player, but perhaps I'm misreading what you're trying to say?
I think he is referring to the fact that if you are in your non-mutated form you have to make a will save to avoid changing after a critical hit or a failed fort save. Most Chymsts will want to be in their mutagenic form when in combat regardless so *shrug* doesn't seem too punishing to me.
I think he is referring to the fact that if you are in your non-mutated form you have to make a will save to avoid changing after a critical hit or a failed fort save. Most Chymsts will want to be in their mutagenic form when in combat regardless so *shrug* doesn't seem too punishing to me.4) Master chymist exchanges your ability to use extracts and skills for slightly high base attack bonus and hit points (an unfair trade most of the time from the looks of it) AND gives you a penalizing class ability (the inability to control your mutagenic form).Where does it say you can't cotrol your alter-ego? The Mutagenic Form even says the "Jekyle" of the two has the same basic goals as the "Hyde" of the two.
It looks to me like the control of both is still in the hands of the player, but perhaps I'm misreading what you're trying to say?
This. I was referring to the forced change. If you guys could FAQ the OP, I would appreciate it.
None of that seems confusing to me or in need of clarification.
Aren't you helpful today! :P
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Just curious since Alchemist & Master Chymist stack in regards to mutagen would they gain persistant mutagen? Otherwise it seems to make more sense to hit 14 levels of Alchemist to last longer. Any thoughts?
Persistent mutagen is a class feature so the chymst would not get persistent mutagen.
Yeah, strangely enough a high level alchemist is going to be in the mutagen form for more time than the chymst. The chymst can change more frequently though.
Also, the chymst can switch back and forth, the alchemist is stuck in his mutagenic form until the duration expires.
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None of that seems confusing to me or in need of clarification.Aren't you helpful today! :P
You didn't even ask questions, you made a bunch of statements, most of which were accurate, one of which was wrong and clearly answered in the rules.
Your only "question" :
Why would anyone take this prestige class? There seems to be so little synergy.
Is rhetorical.
So seeing as you haven't even asked any questions why do you want it flagged as a frequently asked question?
3) I think the answer is yes. An Alchemist 8/Master Chymist 3 should have the following.
Mutagen: duration 80min. (as Mutagen duration is not affected by the Master Chymist levels)
Mutate 2/day: each duration 110min. (as Mutate duration adds Alchemist & Master Chymist levels together)
They'd all be 110 min., since "Using a mutagen also forces the chymist into this form."
Just curious since Alchemist & Master Chymist stack in regards to mutagen would they gain persistant mutagen? Otherwise it seems to make more sense to hit 14 levels of Alchemist to last longer. Any thoughts?Persistent mutagen is a class feature so the chymst would not get persistent mutagen.
Yeah, strangely enough a high level alchemist is going to be in the mutagen form for more time than the chymst. The chymst can change more frequently though.
Also, the chymst can switch back and forth, the alchemist is stuck in his mutagenic form until the duration expires.
Well there is this though:
Extended Mutagen (Ex): The duration of the master chymist’s mutation is doubled.
So he could get a longer duration to go with his more uses... that would give him 5 times a day at 400 minutes a use (10 mins x 20 levels x 2 for extended) so 2000 minutes a day... that's 33.33 hours...
Much more than I think anyone really needs in a day. Even without the doubling you have over 16 hours a day -- and you got to sleep sometime.
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When you enter the Chymst your duration is instantly bumped from 90 minutes to 4 hours... If you have some down time you can make another mutagen in an hour. As you progress the duration gets longer and longer.
Unfortunately this isn't available at lower levels where you could really benefit from it.