Are weapon masters worth it?

[Diskordant]

I am starting a game with a Human Fighter, Str 18 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 11 Wis 14 Chr 14(28 point buy), who uses a falchion. He's going to be a falchion master, priest of desna(in title and action). I want him to be a weapon master with the falchion, but I also want him to wear heavy armor, and it just seems that giving up Armor training isn't worth what you get for it, unless I dump his dex and even still moving 30 in full plate is very desirable.

What are other people's thoughts?

[grasshopper_ea]

Diskordant wrote:

I am starting a game with a Human Fighter, Str 18 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 11 Wis 14 Chr 14(28 point buy), who uses a falchion. He's going to be a falchion master, priest of desna(in title and action). I want him to be a weapon master with the falchion, but I also want him to wear heavy armor, and it just seems that giving up Armor training isn't worth what you get for it, unless I dump his dex and even still moving 30 in full plate is very desirable.

What are other people's thoughts?

Well It's great for some fighters*coughdwarvescough* who only move 20 if they're in stone plate or naked as the day they were born. Noone says just because he's a falchion master you can't use the standard fighter to achieve that if you want the armor training. It's just an option your character can be a falchion master if he's a half-orc bard if that's what you want him to be.

[Diskordant]

grasshopper_ea wrote:

Well It's great for some fighters*coughdwarvescough* who only move 20 if they're in stone plate or naked as the day they were born. Noone says just because he's a falchion master you can't use the standard fighter to achieve that if you want the armor training. It's just an option your character can be a falchion master if he's a half-orc bard if that's what you want him to be.

I'm aware of the fact that it is only an option and that I can still be a falchion master without using that archetype or even as a fight, obviously since I also plan on being a Desnian priest without being a cleric. I wasn't asking for what I can do, but what other peoples impressions on the weapon master archetype are. Saying that it's great for a different type of character than the one I'm playing and that I don't have to take it offers very little insight into the benefits outweighing the disadvantages.

[grasshopper_ea]

Diskordant wrote:

grasshopper_ea wrote:

Well It's great for some fighters*coughdwarvescough* who only move 20 if they're in stone plate or naked as the day they were born. Noone says just because he's a falchion master you can't use the standard fighter to achieve that if you want the armor training. It's just an option your character can be a falchion master if he's a half-orc bard if that's what you want him to be.

I'm aware of the fact that it is only an option and that I can still be a falchion master without using that archetype or even as a fight, obviously since I also plan on being a Desnian priest without being a cleric. I wasn't asking for what I can do, but what other peoples impressions on the weapon master archetype are. Saying that it's great for a different type of character than the one I'm playing and that I don't have to take it offers very little insight into the benefits outweighing the disadvantages.

The tile of your post "are weapons masters worth it?" You proceded to find a complaint with a class feature. I showed you multiple scenarios where this is not an actual a penalty, or where you can get around this penalty and stay within the character concept both showing that weapons masters can very much be worth it, and that your character can use the standard fighter and still be a falchion master. Did you have any actual questions you wanted to ask, or are you simply griping that the weaponsmaster loses armor training in his obsessive quest to master his weapon?

[xevious573]

Is it worth it? Is 15-20 x4 crit three times per day (the rest 15-20 x3) with a elven curve blade worth it? I like the idea... personally I want to use it with kukris... but I've never been all that interested in armor training myself... so in my opinion yes it is... in yours? It doesn't look like it... so... YMMV which is how it is supposed to be... Perhaps mobility fighter is more what you're looking for... you know... with all that travel domain Desna has?

[Diskordant]

grasshopper_ea wrote:

The tile of your post "are weapons masters worth it?" You proceded to find a complaint with a class feature. I showed you multiple scenarios where this is not an actual a penalty, or where you can get around this penalty and stay within the character concept both showing that weapons masters can very much be worth it, and that your character can use the standard fighter and still be a falchion master. Did you have any actual questions you wanted to ask, or are you simply griping that the weaponsmaster loses armor training in his obsessive quest to master his weapon?

I posted a very rude response and I have removed it, if you read it before I had the good sense to remove it I apologize. I feel that people's lack of civility is the worst thing about messageboards, and these boards in particular can get very bad. I realize my previous post was also less than civil and apologize for that.

That said, I thought my question was clear, and found your post trivializing attempt at getting some advice quite irksome.

Though the post title using plurals rather than saying "Would a weapon master be worth it?" could have caused confusion. The fact of the matter is that I very much write from a stream of consciousness rather than plan what to say led to me asking a general question about weapon masters when I wrote the title to a specific question: Whether or not weapon master would offer enough of an advantage to outweigh the disadvantages of my specific character concept?

xevious573 wrote:

Is it worth it? Is 15-20 x4 crit three times per day (the rest 15-20 x3) with a elven curve blade worth it? I like the idea... personally I want to use it with kukris... but I've never been all that interested in armor training myself... so in my opinion yes it is... in yours? It doesn't look like it... so... YMMV which is how it is supposed to be... Perhaps mobility fighter is more what you're looking for... you know... with all that travel domain Desna has?

I do agree that the benefits look great on paper, but I don't see this campaign going that far. I have looked at the mobility fighter as well but have ruled it out. If I could somehow take both, then maybe as that is a close approximation of what the 3.0 weapon master was like(which this character is an update of my original 3.0 weapon master).

[Ice Titan]

Wear mithral full plate.

Enjoy a higher max dex.

Wear boots of striding and springing.

Enjoy moving at 30ft.

I think that's... 16,000gp for two class features. Not bad.

Or 4,200gp for a mithral breastplate. That'd let you move at 30ft. with a pretty high max dex as well. You'd just lose 3 AC from the full plate.

[Themetricsystem]

Ice Titan wrote:

Wear mithral full plate.

Enjoy a higher max dex.

Wear boots of striding and springing.

Enjoy moving at 30ft.

I think that's... 16,000gp for two class features. Not bad.

Or 4,200gp for a mithral breastplate. That'd let you move at 30ft. with a pretty high max dex as well. You'd just lose 3 AC from the full plate.

AC is always going to end up getting outpaced by +hit anyway, I always find melee characters are better off staying mobile and stacking up on health whenever they can.

[hogarth]

My two cents: I don't really like 1/day or 2/day abilities, so I'm kind of unimpressed by Reliable Strike and Deadly Critical. Mirror Move seems like it would rarely come into play, particularly if you're using something slightly exotic like a falchion. Weapon Guard seems like it would rarely come into play as well. Unstoppable Strike is kind of cool, but that's at level 19; my games have never gotten up that high.

So the only real benefit I see is getting weapon bonuses two levels earlier. That's nice, but I'd rather have Bravery and Armor Training.

[Jason Nelson]

hogarth wrote:

My two cents: I don't really like 1/day or 2/day abilities, so I'm kind of unimpressed by Reliable Strike and Deadly Critical. Mirror Move seems like it would rarely come into play, particularly if you're using something slightly exotic like a falchion.

It's an interesting conundrum for a potential weapon master. You can take a somewhat exotic weapon like elven curve blade, kukri, falcata, or falchion, that may give you better offense, but Mirror Move won't come up very often.

Or, you can take a very common weapon like dagger, longsword, greatsword, or rapier, and you may give back a little on offense but then Mirror Move will come up quite a bit.

Alternatively, if you have a multiclass or monstrous build with claws or a bite attack, you could become a weapon master of that - giving back a little more on offense, but Mirror Move would come up all the time with it.

Just a notion of different ways to play it...