Zen archer stacking up against Fighter Archer

[james maissen]

I was wondering if anyone has done a comparison between the two as of yet?

I'm wondering how well the Monk compares to the fighter.

On the fighter's side there is manyshot and weapon training while on the monk's side there is improved flurry (8th), ki points (for extra attacks), and greater flurry (15th).

What are people thinking here?

-James

[Name Violation]

can the zen archer flurry and rapid shot + many shot during the flurry?

[ericx00]

no to both manyshot and rapid shot during a flurry

[james maissen]

Name Violation wrote:

can the zen archer flurry and rapid shot + many shot during the flurry?

No, he expressly cannot.

So the extra attack via flurry from the monk at full BAB -2 is essentially identical to a fighter with rapid shot.

The Monk can burn a ki point to do one of 3 things: gain an extra attack, increase the die size of his arrows (1d8 to 2d6), or increase his range by 50ft. He can also spend it like any monk to increase his speed or his AC. In general this will be entirely to gain the extra attack. A +2.5 to damage for each attack doesn't seem like it would ever be worth loosing a full extra attack to get.

The ki point extra attack essentially balances out the Manyshot extra arrow. It's figuring out the weapon training compared to the extra iterative attacks that the monk gains at 8th and 15th that have me questioning things.

I would think that by then the fighter surpasses the Monk, but I'm curious when this happens along the way for more than a level or two.

-James

[Ice Titan]

10th level fighter -- +18x2/+18/+13 ... 1d8+6+2+6+2 20/x3
... +2 composite longbow mighty +4
... bracers of archery
... weapon focus, g weapon focus, weapon specialization
... deadly aim, rapid shot, many shot, point blank shot
... precise shot, safe shot, trick shot
.. 7 feats out of 12
STR 18 DEX 20 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 10

10th level monk -- +16/+16/+11/+11 ... 1d8+6+6+2 20/x3
....... or +16/+16/+16/+11/+11 ... 1d8+6+6+2 20/x3
....... or +16/+16/+11/+11 ... 1d10+6+6+2 20/x3
... +2 composite longbow mighty +4
... bracers of archery
... weapon focus*, weapon specialization*, shot on the run*
... improved precise shot*, precise shot*, point blank shot*
... deadly aim, point blank master*, perfect strike*
... ki arrows, reflexive shot
... 7 feats out of 12
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 20 CHA 10

Looks about equal.

[TheJollyLlama875]

I have an archery-based vanilla fighter in a game now, so when the APG came out I sat long and hard and thought about it. I feel like the archery fighter is going to be a little bit better - mostly because of Weapon Training and Armor Proficiency. Other abilities that really stick out for me are Trick Shot, Volley, Ranged Defense and Weapon Mastery.

That being said, there are a few things I absolutely love about the Zen Archer. First, there's no need to blow a feat on Rapid Shot, when Flurry of Blows does the exact same thing. Second, the synergy between Manyshot and Perfect Shot is so excellent it makes me cry a little. Third, the Trick Shot that they get to shoot around corners is also excellent. And number five, the big huge one, is that they can use Wisdom as their attack stat for bows, which really reduces the Monk's MAD (Multiple Attribute Disorder). Plus, they still get a bunch of neat Monk stuff (unarmed strike, slow fall, etc)

TLDR; Archery fighter pumps out more damage, but Zen Archer is so much COOLER, and a smidge more versatile. Both make rangers cry.