I think a bonus to his CMD equal to his Monk level would be sufficient.
There must be a limit to this, otherwise the monk wont be knocked prone even if a meteorite lands on him.
Or what about if the ground opened up beneath him?
Reverse Gravity?
A purple worm burrowing up beneath him?
The Tarrasque walking through his square?
etc.
Richard
It doesn't prevent damage, so a meteor would still kill him. It would probably work against reverse gravity (for a single turn, because he'll fall as soon as it's his turn again). The tarrasque can still trample him for damage. About ground opening up and purpleworm burrowing up? No idea.
EDIT: And bonus to CMD equal to level would be far to weak IMO. The monk needs a few things to be good at. Now, a bonus of +(20 + level) I could see.
I'm trying to think of other examples.
The point is, he cannot be an "immovable object". Even though this is fantasy that is still a god-like - well, even more than god-like - power.
What if the Tarrasque wanted to bull-rush him?
What about a Tsunami?
Richard
Since it's one of the few interesting things he actually gets, why not let him have it? What is god-like and not is defined by who can do it - killing people with a word isn't godlike because a wizard can do it. Now, being more or less immovable for a short while isn't godlike since a monk can do it.
Since it's one of the few interesting things he actually gets, why not let him have it? What is god-like and not is defined by who can do it - killing people with a word isn't godlike because a wizard can do it. Now, being more or less immovable for a short while isn't godlike since a monk can do it.I'm trying to think of other examples.
The point is, he cannot be an "immovable object". Even though this is fantasy that is still a god-like - well, even more than god-like - power.
What if the Tarrasque wanted to bull-rush him?
What about a Tsunami?
Richard
There are limitations to the wizard's ability to kill people with a word.
There are no limitations on the monk's bastion stance, except for the part about not moving. If he doesn't, NOTHING can move him.
Hurry! The monk got something nice! Take it from him!
There are no limitations on the monk's bastion stance, except for the part about not moving. If he doesn't, NOTHING can move him.
Of course he still can be moved, just not during other character's turns. You can still ready an action to bull rush him when it's his turn, and if you remove the ground below him he still falls - just not until it's his turn.
And the limits to the wizards power to kill normal people are reaally weak. Sure, there's some people he can't kill, but a Power Word: Kill will still be able to kill any one of 99% of the population!
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This is the only example I know of of *ultimate* force.
Neither gods nor demon princes can move him.
If the USS Enterprise were somehow or another to land on Golarion and the monk stood on top of it for a round, he could prevent it taking off again (admittedly, for just one round, but still).
What about if he sat on a bomb?
I suppose you could probably argue that the ability only works while the monk is conscious. So the bomb would kill him first, then explode past him.
Awesome Blow should presumably also work if the monk is reduced to -1 and becomes unconscious.
The interesting thing then is, does the monk take damage by virtue of the fact that this immovability stops him getting out of the way?
Ok, just for realism's sake, assume the monk has been enlarged to Huge size, and he's sticks himself up in the air (he's flying too) directly in the path of a charging Red Dragon. When dragon and immovable monk collide there's going to be an almighty thwack! Do either of them take damage?
Richard
Hurry! The monk got something nice! Take it from him!
Of course mountains can move! Sacred ones are easier to move!
This is the only example I know of of *ultimate* force.
Neither gods nor demon princes can move him.
There's no rules for gods and AFAIK not for demon princes either, so we don't know what powers they have.
If the USS Enterprise were somehow or another to land on Golarion and the monk stood on top of it for a round, he could prevent it taking off again (admittedly, for just one round, but still).
I assume that if you stand on something huge that moves, you move with it - otherwise, considering Golarion a planet would mean that even if he's standing perfectly still he'll glide through square after square as the planet turns.
Ok, just for realism's sake, assume the monk has been enlarged to Huge size, and he's sticks himself up in the air (he's flying too) directly in the path of a charging Red Dragon. When dragon and immovable monk collide there's going to be an almighty thwack! Do either of them take damage?
You can't do it "in the path of a charging" anything as you have to do it on your turn. So first you move in front of your enemy, then it gets to choose if t wants to charge or not.
EDIT: And you can't enlarge someone to Huge, you'd have to have another mean to do this.EDIT: I do believe however, that the ability was intended for use on the ground (since it's a monk of a sacred mountain after all). Now, the RAW doesn't prohibit you from going into the air, but personally I think that might be the idea.
This is the only example I know of of *ultimate* force.
Richard
There you go, no problem then. An immovable object is only problematic if you introduce an unstoppable object. :-D
It's a supernatural ability that draws from the monks connection to the earth. I would say the monk is only immovable in relation to the planet then, introduce a force capable of moving the whole planet* and it should be able to move the monk as well.
;-)
Yes supernatural abilities are godly, but in a cosmology where the heroes can eventually defeat the gods themselves, a few godly abilities here and there are appropriate.
(*assuming your cosmology has planets, not just a material plane connecting to other planes at the edges, in which case moving it is not on option, destroying it on the other hand...)
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I assume that if you stand on something huge that moves, you move with it - otherwise, considering Golarion a planet would mean that even if he's standing perfectly still he'll glide through square after square as the planet turns.
I did wonder about that - but then if you consider a dragon instead of a spaceship, should it be able to take off with the monk on its back?
And why is flight so special - what if he was standing on a Tarrasque?
And if, as I think might have been meant to have been the case, this only works if you are standing on the ground, what happens if something moves, or removes, the ground?
Richard
I would say that it's up to a DM call on that one, in regards to preventing the ground from moving.
Think of it this way. The monk is "rooting" himself in place by making a conscious choice. If you need to determine spell effects or results of something moving the ground, I would look at the monk's level in regards to the effect.
I would add a line like: "If an effect attempts to move the ground the monk has set himself upon, treat as the monk having spell resistance equal to 10 + Monk Level + Wis Mod for determining whether or not the effect can target the area that the monk stands upon."
Or something like: "If something would affect the ground that the Monk has enacted his Bastion Stance on, a number of 5-foot squares equal to the Monk's level (the square that the Monk stands upon must be one, and all other designated squares must be adjacent to one another), chosen by the monk's player are unaffected if the effect takes place while it is not the Monk's turn."
Again, interpretation is left open for some versatility in how the character is played, but I don't find it overpowering at all to have something like an earthquake crack the ground, and the Monk, through force of will, keeps an area of ground intact. In the case of things that affect the ground itself (Transmute Rock to Mud, I think), that's another DM adjudication, but I would at least have a D20+Stat mod (wis-monk, int/cha for the caster) to see if it can affect the square the monk stands on-- or have the monk make a saving throw to keep at least his square solid.
And yes, I would say that an airborne monk cannot enact Bastion Stance. He has nothing to root himself upon.
This isn't OK, but being immune to the effects aging, or a Paladin immune to all diseases is?
Leave the poor Monk alone!
I love how people are making this more complex than it really is. The monk is simply connected to whatever he's standing on and can't be moved from it. Think of him as a human shaped pole that has been plated into the ground. If you move the ground/dragon/planet/starship/random object that he happens to be planted on then the monk moves as well. It also does not work in mid air while he's under the effects of a fly spell because he needs something solid to stand on.
The one thing I can't come up with a clear answer for is something like reverse gravity. I think I would just say that the monk becomes immune to that when he becomes immune to teleportation.
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I love how people are making this more complex than it really is. The monk is simply connected to whatever he's standing on and can't be moved from it. Think of him as a human shaped pole that has been plated into the ground. If you move the ground/dragon/planet/starship/random object that he happens to be planted on then the monk moves as well. It also does not work in mid air while he's under the effects of a fly spell because he needs something solid to stand on.
The one thing I can't come up with a clear answer for is something like reverse gravity. I think I would just say that the monk becomes immune to that when he becomes immune to teleportation.
But then you're interpreting it like a strong glue.
A sufficiently strong force should be able to shift him plus whatever piece of ground he's standing on.
I, personally, think this would be just as powerful if you simply gave the monk +20 to his CMD against combat maneuvers that try to shift his position.
Richard
I can't vouch for numbers, since I'm not a "numbers" sort of person, but I would perceive the quantifying of his bonus to have a couple repercussions.
• Your solution to increasing his CMD excludes non-physical effects, so the aforementioned spells or natural events would bypass it.
• It removes some of the "above and beyond"-ness that permeates the class by grounding it in hard math, which would enable it to be "gamed" around to bypass it.
Now, there's nothing saying that a large enough movement of the land he sets himself on won't move the land itself, but the philosophy is that of a mountain. If the effect could move a mountain, then I'd say it has a chance of moving the monk.
This is a silly arguement.
That is all.
So, it's ok for a wizard teleport things here and there, but is not for a level 16 martial artist be immune to this?
The only thing that can move that monk is Chuck Norris.
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If the ground opens up beneath him- He moves with the earth that is shifted to one side grounded to that bit of earth.
Reverse Gravity- He stays grounded on the turn it occurs, once he moves it would take effect normally but as long as he maintains his place Immobile is Immobile.
Purple Wyrm- See #1 He is shifted out of harms way.
The Tarrasque- More than one creature can maintain a space. It is typical when fighting a huge or larger creature for PCs to be inside of the hitbox of the creature so I don't see a problem here. Maybe is all spaces are taken up and the Tarrasque wants to "push" people out of the way that is fine but regardless that monk aint moving.
This ability is rock solid AWESOME and I personally am going to play it how it is written. Being immune to non-teleportation movement effects is something new and just plain badass. Does this mean he can divert a meteor coming at him at 3000 feet per round? No, but he might have a slight chance if he readies an action against it.