can some one tell me what is the simplest way to make a gorilla intelligent and capable to speak, i am working on making this a bad guy in an upcoming game i am working on, i want to keep his CR as low as possible.
Check the Awaken spell.
Check the Awaken spell.
will that adjust its CR? the gorilla has a CR of 2, what would its new CR be?
The creature will get +2HD, so its CR will have to be adjusted accordingly.
That's all.
This Post Contains helpful information and no sarcasm.
Increase the intelligence to (insert what number you want here).
Put down your pencil.
Done.
You are creating a creature for the PC's to fight. You do not need a "special method" to increase the Int. Or to make it talk. You just need to want it to happen.
(nor should that ability necessarily increase the CR, unlike str, dex, or con ability increases or damage-die increases or multiple attacks.. but thats just my opinion).
Again, no sarcasm intended or implied.
-S
wow, i have to admit that is the simplest way to do it, it is almost one of those staring you right in the face answer. it was not sarcastic at all thanks.
This Post Contains helpful information and no sarcasm.
Increase the intelligence to (insert what number you want here).
Put down your pencil.
Done.
You are creating a creature for the PC's to fight. You do not need a "special method" to increase the Int. Or to make it talk. You just need to want it to happen.
(nor should that ability necessarily increase the CR, unlike str, dex, or con ability increases or damage-die increases or multiple attacks.. but thats just my opinion).
Again, no sarcasm intended or implied.
Straight to the point. Simple. Perfect.
how many threads get answered so easily and simply
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This Post Contains helpful information and no sarcasm.
Increase the intelligence to (insert what number you want here).
Put down your pencil.
Done.
You are creating a creature for the PC's to fight. You do not need a "special method" to increase the Int. Or to make it talk. You just need to want it to happen.
(nor should that ability necessarily increase the CR, unlike str, dex, or con ability increases or damage-die increases or multiple attacks.. but thats just my opinion).
Again, no sarcasm intended or implied.
-S
Note that this is the 4e way of doing it. The Awaken spell is the "strictly by the 3e/3.5e/Pf rules" way of doing it.
The method predates 4e by a number of decades, actually..
Its only fairly recently that DM's have thought they needed a rule to make any sort of modification in order to create an interesting critter for the PC's to face.
-S
the real question is what alignment is it going to be, and also I don't that is right because Gorillas are what would make them the opposite of what you just said.
This message has been brought with sarcasm
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The method predates 4e by a number of decades, actually..
Its only fairly recently that DM's have thought they needed a rule to make any sort of modification in order to create an interesting critter for the PC's to face.
-S
I said "strictly" for a reason. OF COURSE you can just rule 0 it. You can rule 0 anything you feel like, but Awaken is the way within the existing rules to do it.
Unless you just feel like it, then feel free to rule 0 any and everything you want to.
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I said "strictly" for a reason. OF COURSE you can just rule 0 it. You can rule 0 anything you feel like, but Awaken is the way within the existing rules to do it.
Unless you just feel like it, then feel free to rule 0 any and everything you want to.
Awaken over-complicates it, having to completely retool the creature, give it druid levels and all that. Simply changing one number on the statblock and giving it a language is MUCH quicker.
It also depends on how in depth or strong he needs the creature to be however...
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Awaken over-complicates it, having to completely retool the creature, give it druid levels and all that. Simply changing one number on the statblock and giving it a language is MUCH quicker.
It also depends on how in depth or strong he needs the creature to be however...
Since when does Awaken mean the animal has to have Druid levels? It can have whatever dang class levels you care to put on it.
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Since when does Awaken mean the animal has to have Druid levels? It can have whatever dang class levels you care to put on it.Awaken over-complicates it, having to completely retool the creature, give it druid levels and all that. Simply changing one number on the statblock and giving it a language is MUCH quicker.
It also depends on how in depth or strong he needs the creature to be however...
True, but druid is the typical choice for most animals.
the plan is to have the party ( 3 characters level 4) to come across this hedonistic gorilla with a bunch of goblin minions living it up in the ruins of an old temple, they might fight him they might not but the idea is he should be a challenge for them and i might add a level to him of barbarian but that depends on what his CR will be
Since when does Awaken mean the animal has to have Druid levels? It can have whatever dang class levels you care to put on it.Awaken over-complicates it, having to completely retool the creature, give it druid levels and all that. Simply changing one number on the statblock and giving it a language is MUCH quicker.
It also depends on how in depth or strong he needs the creature to be however...
All of my talking gorillas are bards.
I make them experts, some time aristocrats. But they use sign language. The ones that use spoken language have to be awakened and take level of druid
I make them experts, some time aristocrats. But they use sign language. The ones that use spoken language have to be awakened and take level of druid
Sign language using animal aristocrats. VERY cool! I see a beastie wearing a smoking jacket and a monocle.
so if i choose to use Awaken then his CR will go up by 2 right?
would a CR of 4 be a bit too high for 3 characters at level 4
so if i choose to use Awaken then his CR will go up by 2 right?
would a CR of 4 be a bit too high for 3 characters at level 4
I would use that.
With a talkin gorilla you need to go super-genius on the INT. Go big or go home. He could be a Numerian experiment gone wrong, or like King Gorilla on the Venture Brothers. Alternatively, 10 feet tall.
ok so a CR 4 is fine vs 3 level 4 pc's
I like Brain Ape from savage dragon, big plus Hitlers Brain. Maybe it is Nex's brain in there but he can't remember what he used to be.
ok so a CR 4 is fine vs 3 level 4 pc's
IMO
I reckon a 4hd intelligent gorilla is a weak cr4 creature, maybe even cr3and a CR4 creature is a fine challenge for 3 level 4 PC's
thanks for the response
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For my own Angazhan worshipping apes, I came up with a 'Tainted Awakening' spell. It was written for 3.X, but could be adapated to PF pretty quickly (strip out the XP cost, frex).
A gift from Angazhan to his ‘children,’ the awakened apes of the Mwangi ruins.
Tainted Awakening
Transmutation
Level: Adept 3, Clr 3, Drd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M/DF, XP
Casting Time: 24 hours
Range: Touch
Target: Animal or tree touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: YesThis spell functions as Awaken, but with the following changes;
The creature awakened remains a member of it's original Type, but gains the Augmented Subtype. It gains no additional HD, and it's BAB, Hit Die type, Save categories, etc. do not change.
The spell can only be cast by a member of the same or a related species as the target of the spell. An Awakened Ape could therefore use Tainted Awakening on another Ape, a Dire Ape, a Baboon, Monkey or similar simian animal.
The spell requires the sacrifice of a normally sentient being (not one of a normally non-sentient species that has benefited from Awaken, for instance). The Children of Angazhan have a superstitious belief that the type of sentient passes on some traits to the awakened creature, and usually use humans exclusively for this, as they believe that awakening one of their own with a halfling would produce a ‘weak’ child, etc. They will stoop to using a captured elf or dwarf without much grumbling, but never, ever use a gnome, due to an unfortunate incident where the awakened ape turned out to be capricious, whimsical and so terribly malevolent that (purportedly) no members of her community survived her antics. (How this tale would have spread if this were true is one of those subtleties lost on the ape-folk…)
The Awakened animal is not in any way inclined to be friendly or well-disposed to the caster, and indeed is imbued with a fiend-tainted cunning that turns it’s alignment to Evil, and some may become increasingly Chaotic (or, rarely, Lawful) as well, depending on the source of the Tainted Awakening and their own ethical choices.
Awakened animals replace their racial Intelligence score of 2 with a -2 racial adjustment, so that the average animal will end up with an 8 or 9 intelligence, if using the standard ‘all 10’s and 11’s’ system of attribute distribution. Exceptional specimens may use the Standard Array, Elite Array or some other point-distribution system. Physical attributes and number of hit dice do not increase, but the former animals’ wisdom decreases by 2, and its charisma increases by 4.
Example: An Ape has racial ability modifiers of +10 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Wis and -4 Cha, as well as an automatic and non-adjustable Intelligence score of 2. After Tainted Awakening, the physical attributes remain unchanged (+10 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con), but the Ape now has a -2 Int, +/- 0 Wis and +/-0 Cha, as well as a Neutral Evil alignment score. It retains the Animal type (adding the Augmented subtype), so it's BAB, HD and senses do not change.
An animal affected by this spell instinctively resists, and is allowed a Will save to not become tainted by this fiendish intellect. The caster still must also make a Will save, as per the standard Awaken spell to channel the magic. Typically, the Children of Angazhan devour any of their own infant kind who resist this spell, considering it an ill omen to refuse the ‘blessing’ of their savage god.
Tougher servants of Angazhan could have the Fiendish template, or even the Half-Fiendish template, or be Dire Apes (with the Gorilla King himself being a Half-Fiend Tainted Awakened Dire Ape). Class levels for the hoi-polloi would be Barbarian and Ranger, for the elite would be Adept, Druid and Abyssal Sorcerer. Clerics of Angazhan would be very rare. Spellcasting Tainted Awakened Dire Apes would also be very rare. Due to a profound dislike of the local awakened monkeys, who aren't necessarily evil, and don't worship Angazhan, most of the Ape-Men with Animal Companions and / or Familiars would prefer non-simians, with a strong preference for vipers, constrictors, monitor lizards and crocodiles for these roles.
The ape-culture lives off of slavery, and preferentially eats meat. A thousand or so years ago, they were the slaves, awakened to serve humans. There was no Charlton Heston in this world, so they rose up, inspired by the dark and hateful whispers of Angazhan, and ate their oppressors, enslaving the survivors. Being incapable of practicing any sort of restraint, they tend to overhunt, brutalized and / or eat all of their slaves, fall into cannibalism, civil war and plague, and have to rebuild their 'glorious empire' every few generations.
If they didn't require so much meat, prove so utterly unsuited to long-term planning and have their reproduction stunted by the need to produce high enough level Adepts, Druids and / or Clerics to use Tainted Awakening on their own spawn, they'd probably be an unholy terror...
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thanks for the response
Keep in mind that, according to the rules, you can't increase an animal's INT score higher than 2. INT scores of 3 and higher are not possible for an animal (other than special cases like a druid or ranger's animal companion, a paladin's mount etc)
As others have pointed out, this doesn't mean you can't do it anyway in a home game of course! You're just house ruling...
I actually think the Awaken spell would be perfect for this. It makes the gorilla as intelligent as the PCs (maybe even MORE so) and only increases the HD (and CR) by a few points. Perfect for the party you describe. Just remember that the gorilla will no longer be an animal - it becomes a magical beast.
And, if you want him to be a long term adversary, he can then slowly advance using class levels so your PCs can encounter him again later on when he has 5 or 6 levels of fighter, for instance
Couldn't you also just put a Headband of Vast Intelligence, or Headband of Mental Superiority on the gorilla? It makes its occurrence sort of "accidental" in a way.
That's how I got past kindergarten.
All of my talking gorillas are bards.
At least it's not a howler monkey. Now THAT would be a hell of a bard.
Heh, make it an Alchemist with a high INT and name him Grodd.
All of my talking gorillas are bards.At least it's not a howler monkey. Now THAT would be a hell of a bard.
Howler monkey bards are the best. I name them all Englebert Humperdinck. You haven't known battle until you've waded in against a skittering legion of howling Humperdincks! (Richard Pryor link NSFW!)
All of my talking gorillas are bards.At least it's not a howler monkey. Now THAT would be a hell of a bard.
Been a long time though, could easily be wrong.
wasgreg
** spoiler omitted **
wasgreg
Path of the Perambulator he accidently turned himself into a howler monkey while attempting to turn his friends back into animals.
And exactly who I was thinking of.
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For my own Angazhan worshipping apes, I came up with a 'Tainted Awakening' spell. It was written for 3.X, but could be adapated to PF pretty quickly (strip out the XP cost, frex).
Heh, heh, very nice.
This may see some use soon.Does it need the reference to the Awaken spell, though?
I ask, simply as it's my preference to avoid such page-hopping wherever possible.
If you add a line about the Int rising to 3d6 (before the racial mod of -2), and the XP cost (for 3.5), you've pretty much included all the info you need, and don't need to reference the other spell.
Is there a reason for not changing the type to magical beast?