The 1st level ability of the Sniper Rogue archetype "halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow". Far Shot reduces the range increment penalty from -2 to -1 per increment.
Are the two intended to stack? The way Sniper Rogue is worded, they do stack, and because of the "always round fractions down" rule at the start of the book, the range increment penalty becomes -0.
"halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow"
You would figure out the range penalty (with -1 per increment due to Far Shot), then divide it by two. In other words, you essentially have a range penalty of 1/2.
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"halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow"
You would figure out the range penalty (with -1 per increment due to Far Shot), then divide it by two. In other words, you essentially have a range penalty of 1/2.
Halves get rounded down to 0. See the "Common Terms" in the core rulebook.
Halves get rounded down to 0. See the "Common Terms" in the core rulebook."halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow"
You would figure out the range penalty (with -1 per increment due to Far Shot), then divide it by two. In other words, you essentially have a range penalty of 1/2.
Which is why I said "essentially". It's like Wizards getting +1/2 to their base attack bonus when they level up.
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Which is why I said "essentially". It's like Wizards getting +1/2 to their base attack bonus when they level up.Halves get rounded down to 0. See the "Common Terms" in the core rulebook."halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow"
You would figure out the range penalty (with -1 per increment due to Far Shot), then divide it by two. In other words, you essentially have a range penalty of 1/2.
Oh so you're saying that at 2 out you'd still be a -1 since the normal would be -2. In other words, you halve the TOTAL penalty, not the per-increment penalty. That makes more sense *fist to head*
That would mean a -5 at 10 range increments. That seems better than -0.
Halves get rounded down to 0. See the "Common Terms" in the core rulebook."halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow"
You would figure out the range penalty (with -1 per increment due to Far Shot), then divide it by two. In other words, you essentially have a range penalty of 1/2.
-1 per range increment. At maximum range (10 range increments), that is -10. Sniper penalty reduces that in half to -5.
Oh so you're saying that at 2 out you'd still be a -1 since the normal would be -2. In other words, you halve the TOTAL penalty, not the per-increment penalty. That makes more sense *fist to head*
That would mean a -5 at 10 range increments. That seems better than -0.
Yah pretty much. The trick is the difference between a per increment and the ALL range weapons increments. So take a -1 penalty per increment and divide that number by 2. I've looked at range increment rules way to often... I had one of my players make a character who could shot 16 miles with a -6 penalty or so...
I haven't seen the book yet or read the ability, so this may be out of context, but might the ability be read that you simply take your total range penalty and divide it by two.
So a normal guy firing a longbow at a range of 450 feet would have a range increment penalty of -8 (4 increments of -2). A guy with just Far Shot would have a range increment penalty of -4 (4 increments of -1). A guy who is just a sniper rogue would have a range increment penalty of -4 (4 increments of -2 = -8, then divide that by 2). And a sniper rogue with Far Shot would have a range increment penalty of -2 (4 increments of -1 = -4, then divide that by 2).
I think any other interpretation is awkward; I doubt it was Paizo's intent to let anyone get the ability to utilize ranged weaponry at any range (up to weapon maximum) with no penalty at all. Else we'll be having Far-shooting Sniper Rogues with Composite Longbows of Distance firing Flight arrows with a maximum range of almost exactly a half-mile (2,600 feet) with no penalty at all.
Yikes!
Of course, interpreting it the way I did, that same guy can still fire at a range of a half-mile with only a penalty of -5, which is still ridiculous, but hey, it's fantasy and he's optimized for it, so I say go for it.
The ability does not say "halve the total range increment penalty". It says:
Accuracy (Ex): At 1st level, a sniper halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow.
If it said "total penalty" I wouldn't have posted this thread. The way the ability reads to me, it halves the per-increment penalty.
It would get even worse with an arcane archer and some divination to locate targets. Seeker Arrows xp . Stand at dungeon entrance and shoot away.
I had one of my players make a character who could shot 16 miles with a -6 penalty or so...
LOL, with what?
The real-world longest sniper shot ever recorded is just under 8,000 feet. Using a .50 caliber rifle. Gunpowder. Modern technology. You have a PC that can fire his weapon more than 12x farther?
I hope he had the exotic weapon proficiency for his howitzer...
The ability does not say "halve the total range increment penalty". It says:
Accuracy (Ex): At 1st level, a sniper halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow.If it said "total penalty" I wouldn't have posted this thread. The way the ability reads to me, it halves the per-increment penalty.
Yeah, maybe you're right.
Or, you could look at it this way:
I have a longbow. You have a light crossbow. We are 450 feet apart. My range increment penalty is -8. Your range increment penalty is -10. But we both are Sniper Rogues, so we "halve all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow" - I halve mine to -4, you halve yours to -5.
It certainly can be read this way. Might not be what the authors intended, but it seems preferable to firing a half-mile with no penalty at all.