you have it in a nutshell the powers they get are a little stronger than what other druids have to the wildshape was made a little weaker. you can turn into whatever a Druid of your level -2 can turn into.
Does this just apply to the options you have to transform into (i.e. you have to be 14th Lvl to transform into a Huge Elemental instead of 12th Lvl), or does it also effect the number of uses per day (i.e. at 20th Lvl, you can only use it 8/day instead of At Will)?
Both, IMO.
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Does this just apply to the options you have to transform into (i.e. you have to be 14th Lvl to transform into a Huge Elemental instead of 12th Lvl), or does it also effect the number of uses per day (i.e. at 20th Lvl, you can only use it 8/day instead of At Will)? Thanks in advance :)I would say just the caster level. I say this because, at level 18 of any of the animal shamans, you would have a situation that you could cast wild shape at will as long it was the focused animal. However, anything else would only have 6/day. I don't think Paizo intended to have you keep track of two different allotments of wild shape.
Sounds okay to me - turn into your totem animal however much you want, but have a lower than normal cap on turning into anything else.
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The animal shaman wild shape is very confusing in general:
So you gain it only on level 6 rather than 4. So far so good, since your effective level is at -2, so at level 6 you wild shape like a druid 4 (i.e. the first level you gain wild shape).
But you gain +2 for your totem animal, meaning that as it is written, it seems like you start at level 6, wild shaping like a druid 8.
I think it should start at level 4, working like at level 6 for your totem animal. Then, at level 6, you can use wild shape for other critters, working like a druid 4's wild shape.
And the uses/day thing would be good to know, too. Do you get extra uses you can use only for your totem animal? What about duration?
There is another thing bothering me: If you go by the rules, you may not wild shape into a creature with a template (since it's based off polymorph spells). Generally, that's okay, but for beast shape/wild shape, that means no giant creatures and no young creatures. (No advanced creatures, either, but since polymorph spells dictate your ability mods and natural armour bonuses, this would make no difference, either)
Since a lot of "actual animals" are simulated with those templates, it technically means that druids lose a lot of options.
Example: The core rules have two bears: grizzly bear and and dire bear (cave bear). They do say that you can generate black bear stats by using the young template. If you use the rules strictly, that means the only choice a bear shaman has is large bear (grizzly or dire bear). That means that when they get wild shape at level 6 (effective level 8), they gain no advantage from their bonus, since a regular level 6 druid can already wild shape into large animals, and there are no huge bears.
Since we're talking about animal shamans, here's the breakdown of shapes they get to use and what advantage they have, depending on totem animal:
It's easy enough to house rule (wild shape, and maybe even polymorph in general, is able to do creatures that have the young or giant template, giant maybe more than once), but a clarification would still be nice - especially to help druid players against mean GMs who won't allow black bear shapes because "that's a template critter!"
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| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So you gain it only on level 6 rather than 4. So far so good, since your effective level is at -2, so at level 6 you wild shape like a druid 4 (i.e. the first level you gain wild shape).
Actually, for the totem shamans, there is no mention that Wildshape starts at a later level than for the regular druid. Note that the text says:
"Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, a bear shaman’s wild shape
ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the
form of a bear, she instead uses her druid level + 2."
This text does not grant the bear shaman a Wildshape ability at level 6th -- it makes changes to his regular Wildshape ability, which he is assumed to have already (as per the Druid base class).
If the ability as a whole were delayed until 6th level, it would be written out like this:
"A Thousand Faces (Su): An urban druid gains this ability
at 6th level."
And the uses/day thing would be good to know, too. Do you get extra uses you can use only for your totem animal? What about duration?
I'd like to know that too. I'd read this as follows: Instead of 2 uses per day, the druid gets 3 uses, but only 1 of these is free, the other two must be his totem shape.
Since a lot of "actual animals" are simulated with those templates, it technically means that druids lose a lot of options.
Yes, we definitely need a ruling here. Can we build a level-appropriate bear/feline/whatever using the Young/Advanced/Giant template if no other choice is available?
Lords of Paizo, hear our prayer! :)
How did this die? Its a very important question. Has it been answered elsewhere?
I'm thinking the way I'll go is that the druid level things for all wild shape archetypes is just animal availability. Your uses are as much as a regualr druid, to stop wierdness. So a wolf shaman can turn into a large wolf at 6th level, but not into a tiger until 10th, etc. Also it limits the weakness of the those druid archetypes, which as a whole don't gain as much as they lose.
My Druid is an Arctic Druid (we're playing in an Ice Age campaign). The text for mine is:
"Wild Shape (Su): An arctic druid gains this ability at 6th level, except that her effective druid level for this ability is equal to her druid level – 2."
I take this to mean that I cannot wildshape until 6th level, and that all variables dependent on druid level are treated as if I were 2 levels lower. This includes the animal choices, the number of times per day, the duration of the wild shape, and the level of Beast Shape the ability emulates.
Basically, I think you take the hit on everything.
Actually, for the totem shamans, there is no mention that Wildshape starts at a later level than for the regular druid. Note that the text says:"Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, a bear shaman’s wild shape
ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the
form of a bear, she instead uses her druid level + 2."
What good is that? Isn't the whole point of higher level wildshape to turn into crap that's cooler than a Bear?
How did this die? Its a very important question. Has it been answered elsewhere?
I am near 100% certain this was answered already.
If my memory serves, both apply.
Example. a 6th level bear shaman subtype.
*effective level 8 for bear forms, = 8 hour durations, 3/day
*effective 4 for non bear forms= 1/day 4 hour duration
So in a nutshell, 1 of his 3 forms that day can be a non bear, at the lower effective power level/bonuses/duration.
My Druid is an Arctic Druid (we're playing in an Ice Age campaign). The text for mine is:
"Wild Shape (Su): An arctic druid gains this ability at 6th level, except that her effective druid level for this ability is equal to her druid level – 2."
I take this to mean that I cannot wildshape until 6th level, and that all variables dependent on druid level are treated as if I were 2 levels lower. This includes the animal choices, the number of times per day, the duration of the wild shape, and the level of Beast Shape the ability emulates.
Basically, I think you take the hit on everything.
I believe this is correct.