Am sure there are others better suited to help with calculating the actual gp, but would recommend having him design out on paper the tavern he envisions. That will be the main factor driving the cost formula. For example, is it small and cozy with just three tables & a couple barstools? ...or is it a three story inn, 50 beds, huge stable, 4 cook kitchen, with a main room expansive enough for a 100 patrons, two stages, and a pig roasting over a central firepit?
It is too bad he hid his main reason of the underground resistance, but have seen players who are just geared internally to keep what they feel is cool about their character secret. But think of all the GREAT plot hooks this opens up for you as GM ...and how truly careful this new tavern owner will have to be--does he help the cause tonight and risk losing it all, or does heplay it safe?
Keep in mind how large 1 square is on the city map. The tavern is not 1 tavern. It is 1/8th of a mile by 1/8th of a mile section of city devoted to taverns. That is 2 city blocks where a significant number of the buildings are taverns (there would be houses mixed in too). So, if you think there are 4 large, popular, taverns in that segment of town, and he owns 1 of them, its not out of line. I would count his 7000 as 2 BP towards building a tavern in that hex, and he has to deal with the extra roleplaying aspects of that. From what I remember, the DMG2 doesn't have the most proffitable rules for buisnesses.
I used the Bourbon Street explanation to get it across to my players. They're not building a tavern, they're building Bourbon Street.
Perhaps the Stronghold Builder's Guide would help with the cost of creating his building. I've only glanced through it once or twice.
Another is how many NPC:s are also building up their own business empires.. and participating in society..
like forexample the wizards tower. Busy selling magical items, and when they succeed, another is produced, and the wealth from the sold one becomes BP:s !!!
Or in other words, the wizard is participating in the community, not just starting up taverns and shops, or building nobles villas to live in, but also occasionally participates in a government drive to build walls, parks and barracks :p
well im not sure. The book says it has to be a grand house. Now i supose i can because the small block also meant to have houses. So if he spends the 7,000 gold they get a tavern inside the city but it must be in a house block. what do you think.
I know its still a cheap tavern but its a pcs own.Or do you think i should lessen the benifits and penaltys for the city, so it dosnt quite count to it.
James has posted many times that the pc's GP resources and the kingdoms' BP pool aren't intended to be interchangable or a strict equals rule. That said, this is kingmaker. If your PC's are ruling this kingdom and one of them wants to personally run a tavern, let them IMO.
(this brings to mind Mirt the Moneylender of Waterdeep, who was also one of the town leaders.)
The kingdom buys a tavern development and 'ingame' the one PC can name and run one of them. As DM i'd allow a basic layout for free, and not worry about upkeep/profit since its part of the kingdom side of things.
Now the PC wanting to do some underground/resistance base under it? That stuff i'd make him pay for with his wealth. just ballpark a price for what he wants to add. (secret room or two in the basement, maybe a secret tunnel or two) and ta daa. Fits fine in the kingdom and pc sides of things, not a huge impact.
as long as the players pay taxes and such from their business and participate by byuing supllies, advertising etc... it should get the city bonuses as much as still gather a profit for the owner.
Or do you see the shopkeepers sitting in the shop unpaid?
as long as the players pay taxes and such from their business and participate by byuing supllies, advertising etc... it should get the city bonuses as much as still gather a profit for the owner.
Or do you see the shopkeepers sitting in the shop unpaid?
If that was to me, i am not sure the player in question wants to number crunch inventory vs. seasonal sales and spend the majority of his life not adventuring but running a tavern. (make up a new character and retire.) It's not Papers&Paychecks, but a way to allow his subplot to work and the AP to still flow onward. In the end, everything we post here is just suggestion, both yours and mine. The GM can deciede what level of detail he wishes to use or handwave parts for expediency.
If that was to me, i am not sure the player in question wants to number crunch inventory vs. seasonal sales and spend the majority of his life not adventuring but running a tavern. (make up a new character and retire.) It's not Papers&Paychecks, but a way to allow his subplot to work and the AP to still flow onward. In the end, everything we post here is just suggestion, both yours and mine. The GM can deciede what level of detail he wishes to use or handwave parts for expediency.as long as the players pay taxes and such from their business and participate by byuing supllies, advertising etc... it should get the city bonuses as much as still gather a profit for the owner.
Or do you see the shopkeepers sitting in the shop unpaid?
lol
no, meant that if the business is running, it is generating the economic buzz. ie the econ+1 (?) and so forth.
It also generates a income. Which isnt related to its synergy effects. It should be possible to hire personel to run it.. and still get a profit out of this tavern.
All the while it still generates the economic bonuses.
I have a PC who wants to own a building. At first it was he wanted to own a tavern for a private income. But now he (and i hate this he lies to me the GM!) is to have an underground resistence all beacuse hes from celiaxs and was a former slave.
Anyway we have been talking about it, and i have the DM II from 3.5 dnd which has rules on owning bussness and i have always wanted to use them.
So they asked me and i said yes, and worked out that in stags rest (the Stags Fort) he would need about 7,000 gold pices, Now a tavern in the book cost 8 BP which is about 32,000 gold (working from that every 4000 invested gets a BP) So he wants it to count towards the citys number of taverns.can someone help me with this please
I think the idea of a PC owning a tavern is great in the Kingmaker setting. I would make a few conditions, however. He should pay for it with his own funds, not kingdom money. Doing otherwise is basically embezzlement, and would not be looked on kindly by the taxpayers. If he insists, you could allow it and give a Loyalty penalty to the kingdom, I suppose. I would also price it individually in GP rather than BP (and your 7K estimate is not bad, for the initial investment). I would not count the tavern as a "city improvement" in and of itself, as it would just be one of several such establishments making up the entire district. I would merely place it in a logical location in the city. As for providing a steady income, if you don't want to roleplay out all the bookkeeping (and I wouldn't), you can just make something up, keeping in mind that the actual profit would be relatively small, particularly in comparison with what the player is making as an adventurer. I'd also introduce some randomness to reflect business cycle reality, some months are simply better than others. He might even lose money some months.
Regarding his desire to run a secret underground organization out of the tavern, I like that idea, too, so long as you let him know the risk he is running and don't let him abuse it. The more active the underground organization is, the more chance it will be discovered, probably with serious consequences for the PC if he is publicly connected to the tavern. If he wants to be a real covert actor, make him roleplay it by describing how he will try to keep the cell secret and what he wants them to do, and then calling for appropriate skill checks. A passive "listening post" cell could probably go a long time without being discovered, but an active cell recruiting agents, carrying out intelligence missions and/or even doing "wet work" would be far more likely to draw attention.
Having an establishment like that is also a potential boon for you as a GM, since it gives you a convenient target for NPCs to go after, if it publicly known (or discoverable) that a PC owns it. Having it partially burned in revenge by an opponent who escapes is a great motivator for that PC.
Finally, the one point you make implying that this player lies to you about the activities of his character or tries to hide them from you is more serious. As GM, you have to know all the time exactly what the characters are up to. It is a simple and longstanding rule at our table, no matter who is GMing, that if you didn't tell the GM what you were doing, it didn't happen. Tell the player it is fine to hide stuff from other players if he wants (athough you can't protect him from their wrath when they find out he's holding out on them), but that you need to know what is going on because you need to figure out how that will impact the game world and what reactions there will be to his covert activites. You're not controlling what he does or flat out telling him he can't do it, but it is your job as GM to determine the consequences of his actions, and he needs to accept that.