I want to create a halfling bard who uses a whip for a primary weapon since he will be a follower of Calistria. However, I noticed the whip only does nonlethal damage. I've already taken the weapon finesse feat in order to allow him to use his dex bonus instead of str since his strength is only 8. Are there any other feats I could take at level 2 to make the whip do lethal damage or to boost its damage?
As is, a whip is minor weapon of limited use...which sucks. I am an Indiana Jones fan, want my freakin super-whip!
That said:
Improved disarm and improved trip can help a lot. Disarm and then take 'em to the ground with the whip and finish them with another weapon. Also talk to your GM about using a variant whip--like one from a metal cable that does lethal, or a custom whip with barbs that will let you substitute the damage of a spiked chain. A cat-o-nine tails should do lethal instead of non-lethal damage.
There are a lot of 3rd party feats and older 3.5 feats that can help as well.
I will definitely look into those options; thank you both. =D
Whips really aren't about damage. They are about pissing the enemy off by depriving them of their weapons and footing. It may not 'feel' like contributing much to a fight, but the reduction in an opponents offensive and defensive capabilities can be HUGE.
That is a good point as well. Maybe if I complement it with a decent ranged weapon like a sling or a bow it will work. I'm just worried that I will be in a situation where I'm not doing damage since I want to use this character in Pathfinder Society games.
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Umm.... A halfling sized whip is pretty bad IMO. You take size penalties on all the stuff you want to use the whip to do. It's like a self-nerfing. A medium-sized whip isn't too bad with the proper stats and feats but I really think a small-sized whip is starting off on the wrong foot......
you will probably be disappointed in the results.
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I'm working on a BBEG who is a Fighter 2 Monk 8/10 or so. He uses a Scorpion Whip +2 with Ki Focus and Shock at the least so it will do 1d4 x2 crit and 1d6 electric damage plus the monk can use stunning fist, Ki strike and quivering palm with the weapon. With the trip feats and the monks fighting ability it should be a pretty fun guy to play.
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Umm.... A halfling sized whip is pretty bad IMO. You take size penalties on all the stuff you want to use the whip to do. It's like a self-nerfing. A medium-sized whip isn't too bad with the proper stats and feats but I really think a small-sized whip is starting off on the wrong foot......
you will probably be disappointed in the results.
This is probably true as well.
Much as I love to watch Indiana Jones breaking out the whip he never actually uses it to kill, or even seriously hurt anyone, he uses it to disarm, control, and intimidate people, as well as using it as a tool for crossing chasms. When he's in a situation where he needs to kill somebody he uses a gun.
By all means take the whip, it has a thousand and one uses both in and out of combat. But it's a tool for intimidating, disarming, and tripping, setting up your opponents for your allies to finish off. Baring magic enhancement you're not going to be using a whip to carve your way through an army of orcs.
You might want to check out the Magic of Thassilon web enhancement though, there's a relic of lust called the Sadists Lash in there that would be perfect for a follower of Calistria.
I want to create a halfling bard who uses a whip for a primary weapon since he will be a follower of Calistria. However, I noticed the whip only does nonlethal damage. I've already taken the weapon finesse feat in order to allow him to use his dex bonus instead of str since his strength is only 8. Are there any other feats I could take at level 2 to make the whip do lethal damage or to boost its damage?
If you have access to the Magic Item Compendium, get a Water Whip when you can afford one. Quite possibly the best weapon in the game. IT does lethal or nonlethal as you want, it has full reach and CAN attack next to you at the same time, has fire or cold damage at will and automagically flows back to your hand as a free action if your ever disarmed.
It is just silly awesome.
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I am playing a whip focused bard atm, and am very pleased so far. By lvl 10, everyone I trip (with improved trip and greater trip) provokes AoO from my party members, and every time they stand up they provoke again. Further, while prone, they are less likely to hit my party members, and my party gets a +4 to whale the bejeezus out of them. DM already complaining about how we kill small groups of mooks without them doing diddly squat in return to us, and I actually kept 2 mid level mooks off the party and down on the ground whilst the rest of the party focused on the BBEG.
The party is loving my choice. The +2 to damage and hit from bard song, the +4 for the badguys being prone, and minor spell casting is making me a VERY valuable member of the party.
Cleric is whining about not having to heal people ;)
I want to create a halfling bard who uses a whip for a primary weapon since he will be a follower of Calistria. However, I noticed the whip only does nonlethal damage. I've already taken the weapon finesse feat in order to allow him to use his dex bonus instead of str since his strength is only 8. Are there any other feats I could take at level 2 to make the whip do lethal damage or to boost its damage?
Two words: animate rope. Take it as one of your 1st level spells known and carry 2 whips (they only cost 1 gp each). This one spell makes the whip one of the best primary weapons for a bard.
As far as lethal damage, the scorpion whip (which does not require a separate proficiency) is an option. At higher levels, weapon abilities like anarchic, axiomatic, bane, flaming, frost, holy, shock, spell storing, unholy, and wounding can increase the damage dealt by a whip/scorpion whip.
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I am playing a whip focused bard atm, and am very pleased so far. By lvl 10, everyone I trip (with improved trip and greater trip) provokes AoO from my party members, and every time they stand up they provoke again. Further, while prone, they are less likely to hit my party members, and my party gets a +4 to whale the bejeezus out of them. DM already complaining about how we kill small groups of mooks without them doing diddly squat in return to us, and I actually kept 2 mid level mooks off the party and down on the ground whilst the rest of the party focused on the BBEG.
The party is loving my choice. The +2 to damage and hit from bard song, the +4 for the badguys being prone, and minor spell casting is making me a VERY valuable member of the party.
Cleric is whining about not having to heal people ;)
Did your DM houserule that you can make AoOs with a whip and trip an enemy standing from prone as part of the AoO, otherwise how the heck did you keep two guys down at once?
Definitely grab agile maneuvers.No need for Agile Maneuvers if he already has Weapon Finesse. The latter lets you use your DEX bonus instead of your STR bonus for any combat manoeuver which happens "in place of a melee attack" (ie, Disarm, Sunder, Trip).
Is this true? That is great news if it is.
Whips really aren't about damage. They are about pissing the enemy off by depriving them of their weapons and footing. It may not 'feel' like contributing much to a fight, but the reduction in an opponents offensive and defensive capabilities can be HUGE.That is a good point as well. Maybe if I complement it with a decent ranged weapon like a sling or a bow it will work. I'm just worried that I will be in a situation where I'm not doing damage since I want to use this character in Pathfinder Society games.
You could always go with a totally whacky weapon scheme of halfling slingstaff in one hand, whip in the other. Whip's a light weapon so good to wield in the off hand. You could stand back and hurl rocks, and then if anyone gets close to you, trip/disarm them with the whip and then wail on them with the club portion of the slingstaff.
Since you're a bard, you'll need to take the martial weapon proficiency feet or take a class dip in Fighter (or other martial class of your choice) to be proficient in the slingstaff.
Mind, I am remarking on this being "cool" more than actually "doing damage" so take it with a grain of salt.
Did your DM houserule that you can make AoOs with a whip and trip an enemy standing from prone as part of the AoO, otherwise how the heck did you keep two guys down at once?
There might be more than one way, but I just know about the Serpent's Lash feat.
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Did your DM houserule that you can make AoOs with a whip and trip an enemy standing from prone as part of the AoO, otherwise how the heck did you keep two guys down at once?I am playing a whip focused bard atm, and am very pleased so far. By lvl 10, everyone I trip (with improved trip and greater trip) provokes AoO from my party members, and every time they stand up they provoke again. Further, while prone, they are less likely to hit my party members, and my party gets a +4 to whale the bejeezus out of them. DM already complaining about how we kill small groups of mooks without them doing diddly squat in return to us, and I actually kept 2 mid level mooks off the party and down on the ground whilst the rest of the party focused on the BBEG.
The party is loving my choice. The +2 to damage and hit from bard song, the +4 for the badguys being prone, and minor spell casting is making me a VERY valuable member of the party.
Cleric is whining about not having to heal people ;)
No, but at lvl 10, I have 2 attacks. I have a movement of 40 (thank you boots of springing and striding) so, trip and move, then trip and move on next turn. Always had one coming at me, but barely got hit (ac = 25) and always kept one down, the other standing up and moving again. just a big game of cat and mouse.
As is, a whip is minor weapon of limited use...which sucks. I am an Indiana Jones fan, want my freakin super-whip!
That said:
Improved disarm and improved trip can help a lot. Disarm and then take 'em to the ground with the whip and finish them with another weapon. Also talk to your GM about using a variant whip--like one from a metal cable that does lethal, or a custom whip with barbs that will let you substitute the damage of a spiked chain. A cat-o-nine tails should do lethal instead of non-lethal damage.There are a lot of 3rd party feats and older 3.5 feats that can help as well.
As the others have said the whip is a good weapon for intimidating, tripping, disarming, subduing, and distracting - and can pinch hit as a grappling hook and line for cinematic effect.
It did save the party I've been DM'ing for though. We have a doppelganger who uses it and who more and more is becoming a pacifist as his/her character develops. At one point the party was facing two lizardfolk golems and a small band of lizardfolk cultists trying to awaken an ancient reptilian lich. The golems could easily have kicked the behinds of everyone in the party, but the doppelganger kept tripping them up with her whip while the rest of the party stopped the cultists. Then the sorcerer finally used fire spells on them. So there are cases when a whip is better than any more lethal or powerful weapon. And esp. good for characters who don't want to kill others (at least no more than necessary) because of their personal code.
I want to create a halfling bard who uses a whip for a primary weapon since he will be a follower of Calistria. However, I noticed the whip only does nonlethal damage. I've already taken the weapon finesse feat in order to allow him to use his dex bonus instead of str since his strength is only 8. Are there any other feats I could take at level 2 to make the whip do lethal damage or to boost its damage?
My wife is playing a halfling bard in legacy of fire with a +2 frost outsider(fire) bane scorpion whip(lethal damage, check it out at archivesofnethys.com). With one round of buffing(good hope and inspire) at level 11 she's dealing (13-20 damage per hit when not able to use bane) 1d3+2 enhancement+1 STR +3 Arcane strike, +2 good hope, +3 inspire courage +1d6 cold, against a lot of creature's she's getting another +2 +2d6 from the fire outsider bane. Aside from that she's adding +5 to hit and damage and +2 to saves to a group with a paladin, a fighter, and a pig animal companion all doing melee.. the druid witch thing hangs back.
So I would say yes you can use a whip as a primary weapon if you're careful. You take AoO's for using it. IMO that should be able to be offset with a feat just like gunslinger.
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Is this true? That is great news if it is.Definitely grab agile maneuvers.No need for Agile Maneuvers if he already has Weapon Finesse. The latter lets you use your DEX bonus instead of your STR bonus for any combat manoeuver which happens "in place of a melee attack" (ie, Disarm, Sunder, Trip).
It is true ;-)
Core rulebook, p 199 : When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls.
Emphasis mine.
... Whip's a light weapon so good to wield in the off hand...Nope - whip's a one-handed weapon which you happen to be able to apply Weapon Finesse to (like a Rapier), it's not a light weapon.
Whoops! There's a misconception I've been running around with for awhile. Sorry about that. Wonder how I got that into my head?
Well, it SHOULD be a light weapon. Really. I own a bullwhip. It's pretty light. ;p
Sword & Fist, the original 3.0 fighters book, had a prestige called the Lasher. It was built around mastery of the whip.
I want to create a halfling bard who uses a whip for a primary weapon since he will be a follower of Calistria. However, I noticed the whip only does nonlethal damage. I've already taken the weapon finesse feat in order to allow him to use his dex bonus instead of str since his strength is only 8. Are there any other feats I could take at level 2 to make the whip do lethal damage or to boost its damage?
Are there any feats or abilities that would enable you to use a whip to deliver touch spells?
Are there any feats or abilities that would enable you to use a whip to deliver touch spells?
Spellstrike?
Scorpion Wip+Sneak Attack=Epic Win