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I want to build a rogue/spellcaster, that specialises on sneak attacking with ray spells (or other kinds of ranged touch attack spells). Not neccesarily because it is a killer concept, but because of the flavor. Still, I'm looking for advice on what I need to make the most of this concept. What do you recommend?
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iff you can use 3.5, check out spellwarp sniper. its a prc made for just that.
otherwise arcane trickster (rogue 1/caster 4 assassain 1/ trickster 10 if you can get the dm to agree to it)
weapon focus ranged touch (ray), imp crit ray, and 3.5 also had ray specialization (preq caster level 4, adds 2 damage to rays). point blank shot, precise shot are good too
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I want to build a rogue/spellcaster, that specialises on sneak attacking with ray spells (or other kinds of ranged touch attack spells). Not neccesarily because it is a killer concept, but because of the flavor. Still, I'm looking for advice on what I need to make the most of this concept. What do you recommend?
Drat, went and looked up stats for playing an ixitxachitl as a PC before reading beyond the thread title.
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The character is for Organized Play, so it has to be Pathfinder RAW. Also, in Organized Play, you only go to lvl 12, and the character has to be playable all the way there. And Evil is the banned alignment, so no assassin.
I was thinking rogue 3/Wiz 3, and then Arcane Trickster, but maybe another caster is better? Also, is there a feat in Pathfinder that allows you to shoot rays in melee without provoking AoO? Otherwise it's gonna be hard to get sneak attacks on the rays after first round.
Of course, I'm gonna go for race: Manta Ray [/joke]
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The character is for Organized Play, so it has to be Pathfinder RAW. Also, in Organized Play, you only go to lvl 12, and the character has to be playable all the way there. And Evil is the banned alignment, so no assasain.
I was thinking rogue 3/Wiz 3, and then Arcane Trickster, but maybe another caster is better? Also, is there a feat in Pathfinder that allows you to shoot rays in melee without provoking AoO? Otherwise it's gonna be hard to get sneak attacks on the rays after first round.
Of course, I'm gonna go for race: Manta Ray [/joke]
use greater invisibility and you won't have a problem
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use greater invisibility and you won't have a problemThe character is for Organized Play, so it has to be Pathfinder RAW. Also, in Organized Play, you only go to lvl 12, and the character has to be playable all the way there. And Evil is the banned alignment, so no assasain.
I was thinking rogue 3/Wiz 3, and then Arcane Trickster, but maybe another caster is better? Also, is there a feat in Pathfinder that allows you to shoot rays in melee without provoking AoO? Otherwise it's gonna be hard to get sneak attacks on the rays after first round.
Of course, I'm gonna go for race: Manta Ray [/joke]
the problem with that is he won't get access to that spell(or any other 4th level spell) until he's 10th level or buys a scroll.
the problem with that is he won't get access to that spell(or any other 4th level spell) until he's 10th level or buys a scroll.use greater invisibility and you won't have a problemThe character is for Organized Play, so it has to be Pathfinder RAW. Also, in Organized Play, you only go to lvl 12, and the character has to be playable all the way there. And Evil is the banned alignment, so no assasain.
I was thinking rogue 3/Wiz 3, and then Arcane Trickster, but maybe another caster is better? Also, is there a feat in Pathfinder that allows you to shoot rays in melee without provoking AoO? Otherwise it's gonna be hard to get sneak attacks on the rays after first round.
Of course, I'm gonna go for race: Manta Ray [/joke]
... Or you can pump your Stealth, take Silent Spell and/or Still Spell, and snipe at opponents. The spell-like abilities some schools get (Conjuration- Acid Dart, Transmutation- Telekinetic Fist; Universalist-Hand of the Apprentice somewhat less so, since it's a normal ranged attack instead of a ranged touch attack) work great, too (spell-like abilities require neither verbal nor somatic components).
Sniping: If you already have successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a -20 penalty on your Stealth roll to maintain your obscured position.
Another option is to take one level of shadowdancer for Hide in Plain Sight, even though it hurts your spell progression. Hide, cast-move-hide, cast-move-hide...
How do verbal and somatic components effect stealth, and sniping in particular?
It's hard to effectively hide when you're chanting and waving your arms. Especially when you need to remain within 30 ft to be able to apply Sneak Attack damage.
In some situations (cover/concealment), you may be able to get away with the somatic components without being noticed. There are also a few situations (deafened opponent) that you can use verbal components; just a lot fewer of them. A Silent/Still spell (or spell-like abilities) can be cast without moving or speaking, which is perfect when using Stealth.
I'm just going to say this is a hard concept to pull off at such low levels.
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How do verbal and somatic components effect stealth, and sniping in particular?It's hard to effectively hide when you're chanting and waving your arms. Especially when you need to remain within 30 ft to be able to apply Sneak Attack damage.
In some situations (cover/concealment), you may be able to get away with the somatic components without being noticed. There are also a few situations (deafened opponent) that you can use verbal components; just a lot fewer of them. A Silent/Still spell (or spell-like abilities) can be cast without moving or speaking, which is perfect when using Stealth.
I see your point, that waving your hand chanting ought to make you easier to notice. But my question was aimed at the mechanics: what do the rules say about penalties to your stealth check from verbal and somatic components?
A good way to avoid problems with stealth and casting (because it's really up to each GM to interpret) is to pump Use Magic Device and get a wand of Greater Invisibility.
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Elf Rogue 1 / Wiz 3 / Rogue 2 / Trickster 5
Str: 7
Int: 20 (17)
Wis: 7
Dex: 18 (10)
Con: 12 (5)
Chr: 7
1: point blank 3: precise 5: weapon focus: ray
7: toughness
Comments: in this level range you'll be working really hard just trying to get a little extra sneak in. Scorching rays at 7 do 4d6 + 4d6, which sadly is the same you would get as a base Mage, and much less circumstantially. If you want to do it for a challenge, by all means; just be aware your power level will be low relative to most you will travel with.
IMO, ditch the Rogue levels, or if you must, take only one to have access tot he class skills, then go all caster, probably wizard (stacks better with Rog than Sorc most of the time, IMO). PBS, Precise shot, WF: Rays, and Silent Spell should get you there. Use a small race for the dex and to-hit bump, and stay the hell out of melee. I only re-iterate that because that's how my last ray caster bit it :( (Air bloodline Gnome, so much fun!!)
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A good way to avoid problems with stealth and casting (because it's really up to each GM to interpret) is to pump Use Magic Device and get a wand of Greater Invisibility.
In PFS this would mean waiting until 6th or 7th level and saving all his cash for 2+ levels worth of scenarios. Not impossible but very challenging.
For the OP: I suggest you wait until the APG comes out and see if there is any relief for what is going to be a challenging concept.
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Well if you are going to ditch the entire rogue concept... look at the Alchemist instead of the wizard. Alchemist has a scaling touch AC attack and works very well in PFS. You can basically be devastating with touch attacks from level one. Large number of skills plus INT focused character is a good fit. Precise bomb at second level means you will never burn your allies. Alchemist also has perception, disable device, and sleight of hands as class skills.
I want to build a rogue/spellcaster, that specialises on sneak attacking with ray spells (or other kinds of ranged touch attack spells). Not neccesarily because it is a killer concept, but because of the flavor. Still, I'm looking for advice on what I need to make the most of this concept. What do you recommend?
Halfling sorcerer 1/rogue 11
Take reduce person as your first sorcerer spell or just true strike and feather fall so you can cast in armor and use wands of reduce person. Start off with ray of frost and orb of acid wands, dirt cheap, upgrade to scorching ray wands, empowered scorching ray wands, etc. you won't need a UMD check to use a wand from the sorcerer list. At level 5 you should have a hide check of +24-26(+5-7 dex +8 size +5 ranks +3 class skill +3 skill focus) get some +competence gear and you can make your snipe checks to sneak attack with a wand most every round, stay 30 feet from opponents that is a -3 to their perception check or a net +3 to your hide check. your level 12 rogue will do 1d3+6d6 sneak attack +6 bleed orb of acid shots from a wand. two-weapon fighting with chill touch from a rogue talent could be interesting this direction.1 point blank shot
3 precise shot
5 Skill focus:hide
edit: oh acid arrow wands should be purchased eventually as well.
