Summoner: 2x Summoned Monsters (SLA) per round via ready action?


Rules Questions


Since the Summoner has a restriction on how many summons can be have on the battlefield at the same time via his SLA, the following situation came up during our last session:

Summoner declares his ready action to summon creature AFTER his summoned creature finished his attacks on the foe.
This way (or even with the delay action) the summoner could easily have two summons on the battlefield at any given round.

Is ist an exploit of the RAI by the RAW or is it just meant to be?

When does the summoned creature act? Always ON the initiative count of the caster when being summoned?
Or on always AFTER the caster? Even when the Initivatiove counter changed after e.g. a delay action?


Wait, is the summon not a 1 round action for the summoner?


If you're willing to burn a summon attempt every round, then yes, you should be able to get two sets of attacks from your summoned creatures. I don't even think you need to ready an action; delaying should be sufficient.

Note that you can only have one summoned creature on the battlefield at a time, though, so "have two summons on the battlefield" is a misnomer. Specifically, "A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time."

Scarab Sages

It is a standard action to 'dismiss' either your summoned monsters or your Eidolon. And one of the things they mentioned at Paizo-con about the Advanced Player's Guide, was that you would be able to have either summoned monsters up, or your Eidolon (not both at the same time).

So basically, you would summon monsters as a standard action, have them attack, then you would have to dismiss them (standard action) to be able to summon additional monsters.

I'm pretty sure this was to balance out the very long duration of the Summoner's 'Summon Monster' ability with the duration of 1 minute per Summoner level.


Let's keep the Eidolon out of the discussion. I just refer to the Spell-like-ability.
Quote of the Summon Monster SLA: "If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster or gate immediately ends."

Why should any decent summoner willingly spend a standard action to dismiss his actual summon?

@hogarth: thank you. I correct my phrasing. I meant "the summoner could easily have 2 independed summons (not counting 1D3 or 1D4+1 for higher level summons!) acting at any given round.


There is nothing in the rules that prevent you from 'spamming' your SLA in this manner currently, but remember you have a limited number and you each round spent doing this is one your eidalon is not helping and you are not casting another spell.
Its a bit of flexibility and handy at times when your eidalon cant perform, but hardly overpowered.

We will off course have to see the actual APG to see if any of this changes.

Remember like John says that you cant use your Eidalon with your SLA.


Jesus saves wrote:


Is ist an exploit of the RAI by the RAW or is it just meant to be?

When does the summoned creature act? Always ON the initiative count of the caster when being summoned?
Or on always AFTER the caster? Even when the Initivatiove counter changed after e.g. a delay action?

It's a waste of a summon for one round extra of combat, seems just about right to me.

Note that the restriction on the summoner was not to limit the number of summon attacks his turn could have but rather to limit them spamming the board with all of them at once.

The summoned creature acts immediately and then acts immediately before the initiative they were summoned.

To whit if the summoner brings in a large earth elemental, the elemental attacks immediately, the summoner finishes his/her turn (if any) then next round the earth elemental acts then the summoner's next turn begins.

If the summoner delays then HIS/HER initiative changes but NOT the summoned elemental (or whatever was summoned) unless he can communicate with it to also delay/ready/etc (and it understands enough to do so in the case of summons with animal intelligence or less).

-James

Grand Lodge

From the PFSRD: Ready

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.

Since summoning via SLA is a full round action, it can not be readied.


Since Summoner summoning via SLA IS a standard action, it CAN be readied.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
LazarX wrote:

From the PFSRD: Ready

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.

Since summoning via SLA is a full round action, it can not be readied.

According to the final playtest document, the summoner's summon monster ability takes a standard action.

Even if it did take a full round action (but not the one round action of the source spell) this tactic would work, but the strict action you'd take would be to delay.

Grand Lodge

Yes, you're right. I suspect the only reason the actual summon monster spells are on the casting list is for wand and staff use. Otherwise I can't see the reason to actually spend spells known slots on them.


I would say they go at the same time, but there is nothing to stop the caster from delaying to go after this Summons.

And he wouldn't need to dismiss, since his current summon would dismiss automatically when he summoned the new one.

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