A player wants to use Craft Magical Arms and Armor to enhance a normal set of clothing (plus masterwork price of course) as armor, with the set of clothing starting at an AC of 0.
I don't have a problem with this but they said that the rules say that the bonuses from these clothes would be Enhancement bonuses, and not Armor bonuses. So, that it would stack with Mage Armor and/or Bracer of Armor which give you an Armor bonus.
So I've been looking at the rule but I'm a little confused.
p.461 under Armor it states that magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses that stack with regular armor bonuses.
p.550 under Creating Magical Armor it talks about enhancement bonuses
However, using the chart also on p.550, creating a new magic item, it's listed as "Armor bonus (enhancement)" not just as "Enhancement" bonus which well, just confuses me.
So, would a set of masterwork clothes (AC 0) with a +2 AC bonus have a +2 Armor bonus or have a +2 Enhancement bonus?
Any help on clarifying this would be appreciated. Thanks.
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compromise and either let them make a natural armor bonus shirt, or a deflection bonus shirt. that way they cant just get 5 more ac than everyone else. maybe even charge them cost + 50% to have it slotted in a non-normal slot.
otherwise, if they are willing to have it just act as bracers of armor, but slotted different just let them
there is no just enchantment bonus. +2 full plat grants 10 armor bonus to ac, not 8 armor and 2 enchantment, but as written the shirt would have 2 armor bonus
Technically they are enhancement bonuses TO the armor bonus.
I know, it's confusing.
The clothes have no armor bonus, but the enchantment increases it (effectively) so for all purposes regarding whether it is armor or not (touch attacks, etc) it is an Armor bonus. It's just a magical armor bonus and, unless I'm wrong, would not function in an anti or dead magic area.
A similar situation arises with an amulet of natural armor. It gives an enhancement bonus TO the natural armor bonus, effectively increasing it, even if the bearer doesn't have a natural armor bonus (or in other words has a +0 NA bonus).
The enhancement bonuses from armor and an amulet of NA stack, because they enhance the base bonus.
Hope this helps and you don't feel too dizzy.
If you want it to be on the up and up make them enchant Padded armor. Unless they're a caster its the same, and even then you'll only incur a 5% spell failure chance.
OK, that helps a lot thanks! I get it now. I saw "enhancement" as a type of bonus just like armor, deflection, insight, etc, but it's really not. It's something you add to those other things. Thanks for the quick replies!
If they wanted to use Craft Magical Arms and Armor on a masterwork set of clothing, then they'll get an Armor bonus to it then. If they get Craft Wonderous Items, I'll allow them to use a different bonus or the rules for a non-normal slot.
Thanks
OK, that helps a lot thanks! I get it now. I saw "enhancement" as a type of bonus just like armor, deflection, insight, etc, but it's really not. It's something you add to those other things. Thanks for the quick replies!
If they wanted to use Craft Magical Arms and Armor on a masterwork set of clothing, then they'll get an Armor bonus to it then. If they get Craft Wonderous Items, I'll allow them to use a different bonus or the rules for a non-normal slot.
Thanks
There you go, that all sounds perfectly fair and balanced.
Just remember that enhancement bonuses only apply to what they're enhancing. You can't stack the enhancement bonus on any other item/effect. For example, a set of +2 magical clothes (+0 armor bonus with +2 armor enhancement bonus = +2 total armor bonus) does not stack with the mage armor spell (+4 armor bonus) or any other armor bonus.
If I may, there is the Snakeskin Tunic from the Rise of the Runelords: The Skinsaw Murders that is defined as a 'Torso' slot ite, (probably meant the 'Chest' region that grants a +1 armor bonus to AC, +2 to Dexterity and +2 saves against poison, requiring only the Craft Wondrous Items, Cat's Grace and Delay poison spells.
Ideally, there is nothing stopping the PCs from crafting shirts, jackets or other 'clothing' articles (can be dresses, pants and so forth but would possibly fall under the 'slotless' category!) that can provide AC bonus via weaving Mage Armor or Shield of Faith into the fabric! I'd rule that such items provide no bonus when worn under armor, naturally, to avoid munchkindom, but the prospect is there!
I can just see the PCs making a killing selling 'Velandrio's Fantastic Vests' to desert-dwellers, weaving Endure Elements into the fabric.
If I may, there is the Snakeskin Tunic from the Rise of the Runelords: The Skinsaw Murders that is defined as a 'Torso' slot ite, (probably meant the 'Chest' region that grants a +1 armor bonus to AC, +2 to Dexterity and +2 saves against poison, requiring only the Craft Wondrous Items, Cat's Grace and Delay poison spells.
Ideally, there is nothing stopping the PCs from crafting shirts, jackets or other 'clothing' articles (can be dresses, pants and so forth but would possibly fall under the 'slotless' category!) that can provide AC bonus via weaving Mage Armor or Shield of Faith into the fabric! I'd rule that such items provide no bonus when worn under armor, naturally, to avoid munchkindom, but the prospect is there!
There's nothing preventing magical clothes from providing an AC bonus that stacks with armor. They'd just need to use the "AC bonus (deflection)" or "AC bonus (other)" lines on Table 15-29 (pg. 550) and not "Armor bonus (enhancement)."
There's nothing preventing magical clothes from providing an AC bonus that stacks with armor. They'd just need to use the "AC bonus (deflection)" or "AC bonus (other)" lines on Table 15-29 (pg. 550) and not "Armor bonus (enhancement)."
Probably, but having Magic Clothing (AC Bonus, Deflection) stacking with Magic Armor (Armor AC Bonus, Enhancement) seems to me to be stacking the deck a bit too far. Again, I think the best way to handle this situation. A Character couldn't wear Armored Bracers with a Magic Shirt that provided an Enhancement Bonus to Armor, the same way they couldn't wear Bracers and any form of Armor, magical or otherwise, together without one 'shutting down'.
Rules wise, there doesn't seem to be anything to support the argument either way as the game designers have (I believe erroneously) neglected to mention such an item, but then created an item in one of their modules but did not elaborate on how it would interact with other items.
I would rule that the Snakeskin Tunic couldn't be worn with any other item that provides a Armor bonus to AC, but it could be worn with a shield or any item that provides an Enhancement, Deflection, Natural Armor or Dodge bonus to AC. Now, by the same token, a Magic Shirt could provide either a Deflection bonus or an Armor Bonus, depending upon wether Mage Armor or Shield of Faith is used in the creation of the item, and I also think it would be fair to limit the overall AC of any magic clothing to +5, to avoid treading on the toes of the Bracers of Armor, but in return I'd be willing to allow any form of armor enchantment, even the flat gold price ones, to be placed onto the Magical Shirt.
Thus we could have a +3 Improved Energy Resistance (Fire) Glammered Shirt, that's a +5 enchantment bonus slot filled, for 53,700 gold. Depending upon if it was created with Mage Armor or Shield of Faith, the +3 AC bonus could come out as Enhancement or Deflection, allowing the wearer of the Magic Shirt to potentially wear Bracers (if the Shirt gives a Deflection bonus) or Rings of Protection (if the Shirt gives a Enhancement bonus).
I dislike using the 'Other' line in the AC ruling as it seems to be a loophole designed specifically to allow a PC with enough gold to create an item that can render them unhittable to mundane attacks, as 'other' is a very wide field of fire for a cunning Player to use and abuse. Furthermore, the Dusty Rose Ioun Stone actually provides an Insight Bonus to AC, something similar to the benefits of a constant Moment of Prescience or even Foresight! And again, I find it doubtful that a Shirt can provide you with an AC bonus by subtly warning you a split second ahead of the attack ... but it would make for an awesome head/helmet/crown-slot item!
There's nothing preventing magical clothes from providing an AC bonus that stacks with armor. They'd just need to use the "AC bonus (deflection)" or "AC bonus (other)" lines on Table 15-29 (pg. 550) and not "Armor bonus (enhancement)."Probably, but having Magic Clothing (AC Bonus, Deflection) stacking with Magic Armor (Armor AC Bonus, Enhancement) seems to me to be stacking the deck a bit too far. Again, I think the best way to handle this situation. A Character couldn't wear Armored Bracers with a Magic Shirt that provided an Enhancement Bonus to Armor, the same way they couldn't wear Bracers and any form of Armor, magical or otherwise, together without one 'shutting down'.
No more 'stacking' than rings of deflection. And it would cost slightly more for an unusual/no slot.
Basically, the rules are set up thusly :
A) Armor bonuses of different types stack.
B) Armor, Shield, and Natural Armor bonuses are allowed to have Enhancement bonuses.
C) Deflection is a standard AC bonus that items can have.
D) Other types of Armor Bonus should be rare (Holy, Unholy, Dodge, Etc).
E) Dodge (and to some extent Circumstance) bonuses are the only bonuses that stack with each other.
There's no reason why clothing can't have armor enhancements on it. Honestly, I'd just use 'Bracers of Armor' and call them 'Robes of Armor' or 'Cheesecake Armor' or 'Pasties and g-string' of armor (based on the character concept) and be done with it. If the armor doesn't take up a slot, then charge more for it. If it takes up the standard armor slot, then no extra charge (heck, I would probably lower the price since it's taking up the correct slot, bracers of armor are more expensive due to being odd slot if I remember correctly, I could be wrong, I'm sort of fuzzy this weekend due to snapping off an incisor).
