hey people
I hope I'm right in this but I seem to recall a specific cleric spell that once cast allowed you to exchange your cleric levels for fighter levels for the duration of the spell.
For what sanity I'm clinging to Am I right in this and if so whats the spell
Righteous Might used to give you Fighter BAB in 3.5 amongst other cool stuff, but no longer, alas.
I'm looking at it, I don't know why but I get this odd feeling it was something else.
I'm looking at it, I don't know why but I get this odd feeling it was something else.
The spell used to do that, it no longer does. Check d20srd.org if you need further proof (3.5 version).
Righteous Might was over the top and got nerfed. Clerics shouldn't make Fighters obsolete with 3 spells. :)
awww...CoDzilla's sad.
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I'm looking at it, I don't know why but I get this odd feeling it was something else.
It might feel like there's something missing, because the spell was usually cast in combination with other spells.
Other spells that were personal only, or only affected non-full-BAB classes, so couldn't be applied to the Fighter/Ranger/Paladin, etc.Making the Cleric surpass the those classes for every combat of the day, and have full spellcasting on top.
At least Tenser's Transformation forced a choice between fighting or casting (which is why I've never seen it used...).
well the situation is they kinda need a full healer but I to be honest am not much for casting. Since I'm still kinda waffling on what to play I thought I would figure it out first.
hey people
I hope I'm right in this but I seem to recall a specific cleric spell that once cast allowed you to exchange your cleric levels for fighter levels for the duration of the spell.
For what sanity I'm clinging to Am I right in this and if so whats the spell
The spell you are looking for is divine power, righteous might supersizes you, divine power used to give you warrior BAB.
Divine power changed a bit, but it is still a very good spell.
well the situation is they kinda need a full healer but I to be honest am not much for casting. Since I'm still kinda waffling on what to play I thought I would figure it out first.
Well a paladin has alot of healing potential if you really do not like full casters.
For healers you can use, witch as a different sort of caster with pretty decent healing capabilities.
hey people
I hope I'm right in this but I seem to recall a specific cleric spell that once cast allowed you to exchange your cleric levels for fighter levels for the duration of the spell.
For what sanity I'm clinging to Am I right in this and if so whats the spell
The spell you are looking for is divine power, righteous might supersizes you, divine power used to give you warrior BAB.
Divine power changed a bit, but it is still a very good spell.
yep, you're right. my mistake.
hey people
I hope I'm right in this but I seem to recall a specific cleric spell that once cast allowed you to exchange your cleric levels for fighter levels for the duration of the spell.
For what sanity I'm clinging to Am I right in this and if so whats the spell
I don't know any level exchange, but, as others have already said, divine power used to give you a warrior's BAB (you don't get fighter bonus feats, though) as well as a bonus to strength and temporary HP.
Nowadays it just gives you +1/3 lv to attack and damage (like divine favour, but not capped at +3, and extending the bonus to strength checks) and one haste-like extra attack.
Still nice all by itself - in fact, if you only look at this spell, it's better now since you can use it together with strength boosters!
The big changes come when you take other spells into consideration: The extra attack does not stack with the extra attack from haste or boots of speed (so while your number of attacks might be the same as a fighter's if he doesn't use haste, the fighter can outdo you with haste), and the attack/damage bonuses don't stack with divine favour.
Takes away the most insane spell combos clerics use to have, but, on the other hand, you can get up to full fighting strength faster.
well the situation is they kinda need a full healer but I to be honest am not much for casting. Since I'm still kinda waffling on what to play I thought I would figure it out first.
You're pretty much screwed then. Nothing can rival a cleric's healing power.
But the paladin suggestion is a good one: They can make decent healers, and if you blow most of your spells (not that you get that many) on healing, you've got a solid warrior who can also cure people.
I play a cleric, and IMO, they nerfed the cleric combat spells to the point where you're not really going to be a decent melee guy as a cleric, at least not by taking a weapon and hitting things with it. Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, Divine Power, and Righteous Might have all been rewritten again and again since 3.0 (and not without good reason, really) to the point where they don't have the durations to be cast out of combat, they don't necessarily stack with the items you'd be wearing (Bull's Strength on a guy with a Belt of +4 Str does nothing), and they don't stack with each other anymore, for the most part. Clerics don't start out with Heavy Armor Proficiency anymore either. Bottom line, clerics aren't great combatants, but are the BEST healers. What I wish they'd do is drop the "cleric as melee guy" idea entirely and give them more/better buff and debuff spells, like Haste, Fly, Cat's Grace, Fox's Cunning, Enlarge Person, etc.
If you don't want to be a spell-caster per se, but your party needs a healer, I recommend the Paladin. You can totally dump wisdom and intelligence, jack up Charisma, Strength, and Con, and be a really tough beat stick with some decent healing thrown on top. The only drawback is that you don't get all of the cleric's "restore X" and "reverse horrible condition Y" spells, so the party might need to buy potions of that stuff and get dead allies resurrected by an NPC.
Actually Divine Power got better IMO. Double the str effect bonus' from the old spell (+6 effect bonus at max as opposed to the old +3 effective bonus at max). Still get an extra attack, just it does not stack with Haste effects any more. And now the Str benefits STACK (now a luck bonus) with your Bull's Str or Str item (enhancment bonuses), which they didn't previously.
If your a melee centric cleric you will more than likely have a good str item, 3.0-Pathfinder so Bull's Str eventually went to the wayside in any case.
But now, if you don't have a Str item Bull's Str is STILL usefull with Divine Power, which it wasn't before.
Was there an overall reduction in power for a straight cleric? Yes, but nowhere the 'supreme nerfage' that many here intimate.
A level 20 cleric with only Divine Power in 3.5 had 4 attacks at +23 to hit and +3 damage with 20 temp HP, considering nothing else. You could not use Bull's Str.
A level 20 cleric with only Divine Power in PF has 4 attacks at +21 and +6 damage with 20 temp HP, considering nothing else. You CAN use Bull's str and the Str benefits are luck so stack with your existing items.
So a loss of 2 'to hit' but a gain of +3 damage, +3 Str Skills and +3 Str Checks and better stackability with items.
All in all more balanced and more stackable but definately not nerfed to uselessness.
And if your a cleric flavored 'Gish' with a bab of 16 or better your make out even better than before.
Actually Divine Power got better IMO. Double the str effect bonus' from the old spell (+6 effect bonus at max as opposed to the old +3 effective bonus at max). Still get an extra attack, just it does not stack with Haste effects any more. And now the Str benefits STACK (now a luck bonus) with your Bull's Str or Str item (enhancment bonuses), which they didn't previously.
If your a melee centric cleric you will more than likely have a good str item, 3.0-Pathfinder so Bull's Str eventually went to the wayside in any case.
But now, if you don't have a Str item Bull's Str is STILL usefull with Divine Power, which it wasn't before.
Was there an overall reduction in power for a straight cleric? Yes, but nowhere the 'supreme nerfage' that many here intimate.
A level 20 cleric with only Divine Power in 3.5 had 4 attacks at +23 to hit and +3 damage with 20 temp HP, considering nothing else. You could not use Bull's Str.
A level 20 cleric with only Divine Power in PF has 4 attacks at +21 and +6 damage with 20 temp HP, considering nothing else. You CAN use Bull's str and the Str benefits are luck so stack with your existing items.
So a loss of 2 'to hit' but a gain of +3 damage, +3 Str Skills and +3 Str Checks and better stackability with items.
All in all more balanced and more stackable but definately not nerfed to uselessness.
And if your a cleric flavored 'Gish' with a bab of 16 or better your make out even better than before.
It is not so much the individual spells being nerfed, but the ability to stack them with other buff spells has been greatly reduced, which is a good thing.
A warrior cleric is still very much viable, after 9th lvl you might just consider fighter or paladin levels instead.
You can still make a solid front line fighter as a cleric.
Clerics are better in PF because you don't have to worry about wasting your healing spells when you have uses of channel energy available.
The biggest nerfs to clerics were
Removal of the divine metamagic + persistant spell + nightsticks combo. No more perma-buffs for clerics.
Divine Power and Divine Favor no longer stack. This is actually a boon in that you now have one less spell to cast in combat.
Still, with Righteous Might and Divine Power, at level 12, you will have a +4 to hit and damage, with a +4 size bonus to strength, damage reduction, an extra attack, and larger weapon damage.
Another strong option is a Paladin with lots of cure wands.
Not sure if it's been said, but check out the Cleric's Holy Warrior ACF in the Campaign Setting (p.43)
Have you looked at the Oracle class? I think spontaneous casting on a divine caster is a nice idea, plus the battle mystery?
The Paladin idea is a better option imo, he has spells (very few tho), channels heal for a lot, and if only one guy is injured, you simply use one lay on hands. Plus healing yourself as a swift action is awesome!
Not sure if it's been said, but check out the Cleric's Holy Warrior ACF in the Campaign Setting (p.43)
That one is 3.5 and paizo {James IIRC}seems to think of it as a mistake. It will not be reprinted for Pathfinder.
Not sure if it's been said, but check out the Cleric's Holy Warrior ACF in the Campaign Setting (p.43)That one is 3.5 and paizo {James IIRC}seems to think of it as a mistake. It will not be reprinted for Pathfinder.
Really? that sucks.
When you say won't be reprinted for PF, do you mean future reprints?
I mean it will not be made for the Pathfinder RPG, from what he said. He sees it as a mistake{it was IMHO} and so while many of the class options may be brought back in the APG or such they have no plans to allow that one.
So the only place ya will ever find it is in the 3.5 Campaign setting. The Pathfinder replacement of that book will not Include any of those options as they will mostly be in the AGP from what I recall.
So yeah, it's gone.
huh. Thanks for that. Do you know when the replacement's due out at all?
Yep due September As you can see it is a larger book,320 pages.
As the old one was almost out of print, they decided to revise it.
Thanks mate!