If my players call on allies via planar ally or planar binding spells, and make the appropriate checks and/or pay the appropriate fees to get extended service, do the allies called get a share of the party's XP for encounters they help to defeat?
I'm thinking not since you have to invest significant resources in addition to using a high level spell slot, but I wanted to make sure.
Creative Director
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If my players call on allies via planar ally or planar binding spells, and make the appropriate checks and/or pay the appropriate fees to get extended service, do the allies called get a share of the party's XP for encounters they help to defeat?
I'm thinking not since you have to invest significant resources in addition to using a high level spell slot, but I wanted to make sure.
Nope. No more so than their fireballs do. A creature called into service via planar binding or any conjuration spell wouldn't be there in the first place if it weren't for the PC casting the spell. From a purely raw rules standpoint, there's no difference between the PCs defeating an encounter because they used a fireball or a bunch of swords than if they defeat it with the aid of a conjured minion.
That said, if the PCs DO manage to secure the long-term aid of a creature via methods like this, the GM should take that into account when balancing encounters.
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If my players call on allies via planar ally or planar binding spells, and make the appropriate checks and/or pay the appropriate fees to get extended service, do the allies called get a share of the party's XP for encounters they help to defeat?
I'm thinking not since you have to invest significant resources in addition to using a high level spell slot, but I wanted to make sure.
Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.
He is not summoned he is called. Remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature.The spell could just as well have been named "Call NPC".
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On the other hand you could perhaps se him as some sort of animal/monster companion, your little temporary pet monster, but I'm not sure that would help. If you cast charm monster and charm an Ogre the Ogre should eat XP too. Especially if the PC "manage to secure the long-term aid of a creature via methods like this".
As for charm monster the duration is 1 day per level.
If my players call on allies via planar ally or planar binding spells, and make the appropriate checks and/or pay the appropriate fees to get extended service, do the allies called get a share of the party's XP for encounters they help to defeat?
I'm thinking not since you have to invest significant resources in addition to using a high level spell slot, but I wanted to make sure.
Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.
He is not summoned he is called. Remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature.
The spell could just as well have been named "Call NPC".
On the other hand you could perhaps se him as some sort of animal/monster companion but I'm not sure that would help. If you cast charm monster on an Ogre and the Ogre help you and he should eat XP. Especially if the PC "manage to secure the long-term aid of a creature via methods like this".
As for charm monster the duration is 1 day per level.
While I agree with the theory, it would be more than a swift kick to the jewels for Enchanters.
I.E -- if an Enchanter casts Charm Person on the NPC gaurd and the gaurd helps us to break into the manor, does the gaurd get any xp?
If they do, is the xp a portion of the Enchanter's xp reward from the encounter?
Should the Enchanter have to worry about such things when the Evocation Specialist can simply blast the poor gaurd into oblivion, net the full xp and finally nip off down to the pub for a quick pint? o_o
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While awarding them xp would make sense - they've done something etc - things could easily get.. silly.
So I personally figure, for the sake of a healthy system, don't give them xp, unless of course the GM wants it to be so.
Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.
NPCs don't get [EDIT: a share of party] experience ... so yes, you're absolutely correct, it's just like an NPC.
While I agree with the theory, it would be more than a swift kick to the jewels for Enchanters.
I.E -- if I cast charm person on the NPC gaurd and he helps us break into the manor, does he get xp?
While awarding them xp would make sense - they've done something etc - things could easily get.. silly.
So I personally figure, for the sake of a healthy system, don't give them xp, unless of course the GM wants it to be so.
Good points BenignFacist.
"NPC gaurd and he helps us break into the manor, does he get xp"? No but if he stays with you and helps you in a fight, yes.I would however not give XP to someone that is dominated. He is not helping you. It is you who control him. This is perhaps not logical, but it's how I feel.
Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.NPCs don't get [EDIT: a share of party] experience ... so yes, you're absolutely correct, it's just like an NPC.
If we are one player short and we need to hire a Cleric, is he not an NPC?
Edit:The game runs from level 1 to level 6. The party needs a cleric.
How is the cleric gonna level up?
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if you use your class abilities, then they don't get xp. Otherwise everytime the group fights a summoner they get the xp for every individual summon.
3 rats, a wolf, 2 celestial badgers and a vrock? don't mind if i do...
also it shafts enchanters. they are ment to force people to fight for them (sometimes). Thats like making the animal companions and familiars count for xp
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Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.NPCs don't get [EDIT: a share of party] experience ... so yes, you're absolutely correct, it's just like an NPC.If we are one player short and we need to hire a Cleric, is he not an NPC?
Edit:
The game runs from level 1 to level 6. The party needs a cleric.
How is the cleric gonna level up?
The party doesnt need a cleric. Its called hard mode. My groups do that more times than not. No/low magical healing changes alot of things.
if you use your class abilities, then they don't get xp. Otherwise everytime the group fights a summoner they get the xp for every individual summon.
3 rats, a wolf, 2 celestial badgers and a vrock? don't mind if i do...
also it shafts enchanters. they are ment to force people to fight for them (sometimes). Thats like making the animal companions and familiars count for xp
Called is not summoned.
The party doesnt need a cleric. Its called hard mode. My groups do that more times than not. No/low magical healing changes alot of things.Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.NPCs don't get [EDIT: a share of party] experience ... so yes, you're absolutely correct, it's just like an NPC.If we are one player short and we need to hire a Cleric, is he not an NPC?
Edit:
The game runs from level 1 to level 6. The party needs a cleric.
How is the cleric gonna level up?
You could try to help me and explain this to me, but you choose cool. :-( How fun for you
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You could try to help me and explain this to me, but you choose cool. :-( How fun for youThe party doesnt need a cleric. Its called hard mode. My groups do that more times than not. No/low magical healing changes alot of things.Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.NPCs don't get [EDIT: a share of party] experience ... so yes, you're absolutely correct, it's just like an NPC.If we are one player short and we need to hire a Cleric, is he not an NPC?
Edit:
The game runs from level 1 to level 6. The party needs a cleric.
How is the cleric gonna level up?
ok, Hired NPc would eat up xp (since at that point they become a "dm pc" anyway). a cohort via leadership wouldnt. Nor would a called creature. The called creature doesnt specifically level up either.
but personally, I wouldn't let the group just up and hire a caster to be a lap dog.
Perhaps James is right, but personally I'd say Yes. It's just like an NPC.NPCs don't get [EDIT: a share of party] experience ... so yes, you're absolutely correct, it's just like an NPC.If we are one player short and we need to hire a Cleric, is he not an NPC?
Edit:
The game runs from level 1 to level 6. The party needs a cleric.
How is the cleric gonna level up?
He levels up when the DM says he does. Alternately, you could use the Cohort rules for him, which dictate how he interacts with experience. However, the experience section of the book says that you give experience to PCs. It says nothing about NPCs. The only time NPCs getting experience is ever mentioned is with cohorts, and they do not get a share of party experience (they get an amount of experience equal to a fraction of their master's experience for the encounter).
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Ninja'd by a huge lizard. I guess you missed just about every check ever given to you.
Not that size matters: That Mantis God is colossal, and still he can sneak up on you. In the desert. Hiding behind grains of sand.
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Ninja'd by a huge lizard. I guess you missed just about every check ever given to you.
Not that size matters: That Mantis God is colossal, and still he can sneak up on you. In the desert. Hiding behind grains of sand.
-.- Damned lizard..
...if it wasn't big, scary and alive I'd slap it silly.
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Thanks for the information / feedback :-)
There is a difference between calling spells and many other spells, since calling spells can last long enough for the caster to recover his spells and easily be cast before combat.
Consider a CR 12 Sorcerer 13. The day before, the Chad the Caller cast Greater Magic Circle, Dimensional Anchor and Planar Binding 4 times. (His 22 Charisma gives him a bonus level 6 spell.) With an int of 7 and 13 ranks in spellcraft, he was able to take 10 when creating the magic circle, meaning that the called creatures had to make a DC 32 Charisma check to break free. (15 + 5 for extra prep time + 13/2 (CL) + 6 (charisma mod)). Most 12 HD outsiders fail that check on a natural 20. When the party faces Chad, they are facing a Sorcerer 13 (with all of his spells and full wealth) and four (CR 13) Glabrezu*. Since the Glabrezu are called, not summoned, I believe that they have the full use of their abilities. They are tasked with defending Chad.
In a different dungeon, we have a different CR 12 Sorcerer 13. He knows an addition sixth level spell (instead of Planar Binding) and might know different third and fourth level spells (instead of Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor). He can also have 13 ranks in a different skill, if there is a better choice than Spellcraft for a caster. That does not sound like a lot to balance 4 Glabrezu.
Chad sounds a lot more like an EL 17+ encounter than an EL 12 encounter. If they PC's fight Chad and then get EL 12 experience with the explanation of "the Glabrezu were called", I would expect some complaining (to say the least).
* Technically, there should probably only be 2, since the Charisma check to get them to agree is only about 50%. OTOH, since there is no cost to any of these spells, it would also be reasonable for Chad, just before he goes to sleep, to attempt a calling. Since the circle lasts for a day per level, Chad will almost certainly win a Charisma check before the circle lapses. Even given the Glabrezu a +6 for offering no incentives, he should succeed every 3-4 days, meaning he would always have 3-4 guardians.
There is a difference between calling spells and many other spells, since calling spells can last long enough for the caster to recover his spells and easily be cast before combat.
Consider a CR 12 Sorcerer 13. The day before, the Chad the Caller cast Greater Magic Circle, Dimensional Anchor and Planar Binding 4 times. (His 22 Charisma gives him a bonus level 6 spell.) With an int of 7 and 13 ranks in spellcraft, he was able to take 10 when creating the magic circle, meaning that the called creatures had to make a DC 32 Charisma check to break free. (15 + 5 for extra prep time + 13/2 (CL) + 6 (charisma mod)). Most 12 HD outsiders fail that check on a natural 20. When the party faces Chad, they are facing a Sorcerer 13 (with all of his spells and full wealth) and four (CR 13) Glabrezu*. Since the Glabrezu are called, not summoned, I believe that they have the full use of their abilities. They are tasked with defending Chad.
In a different dungeon, we have a different CR 12 Sorcerer 13. He knows an addition sixth level spell (instead of Planar Binding) and might know different third and fourth level spells (instead of Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor). He can also have 13 ranks in a different skill, if there is a better choice than Spellcraft for a caster. That does not sound like a lot to balance 4 Glabrezu.
Chad sounds a lot more like an EL 17+ encounter than an EL 12 encounter. If they PC's fight Chad and then get EL 12 experience with the explanation of "the Glabrezu were called", I would expect some complaining (to say the least).
* Technically, there should probably only be 2, since the Charisma check to get them to agree is only about 50%. OTOH, since there is no cost to any of these spells, it would also be reasonable for Chad, just before he goes to sleep, to attempt a calling. Since the circle lasts for a day per level, Chad will almost certainly win a Charisma check before the circle lapses. Even given the Glabrezu a +6 for offering no incentives, he should succeed every...
This is one of the few instances where I think there SHOULD be a double standard.
If the PCs fight Chad and his called minions, they SHOULD get XP for Chad and each of the called outsiders.
If the PCs call minions themselves, they should NOT lose XP for having them around.
Why? Because Chad doesn't lose any "real" resources (the GM arbitrarily assumes he has everything he needs for the coming encounter) whereas the PCs absolutely have to expend large amounts of resources (sometimes thousands and thousands of gold among other things like possible favors/quests) which will have a huge effect on how future encounters might be handled (they now have less resources, but might have called companions in exchange).
