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So, I've been thinking about touch spells a lot lately, and this prompts a few questions. When you cast a spell with a range of touch, do you get to make a touch attack as part of the casting action, or do you have to make a separate standard action attack for that? If it is the former, can you substitute the touch attack for an unarmed strike (assuming you have Imp. Unarmed Strike) and still use the same action?
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So, I've been thinking about touch spells a lot lately, and this prompts a few questions. When you cast a spell with a range of touch, do you get to make a touch attack as part of the casting action, or do you have to make a separate standard action attack for that? If it is the former, can you substitute the touch attack for an unarmed strike (assuming you have Imp. Unarmed Strike) and still use the same action?
same action. i think theres actually more to it, but i'll leave that for someone else unless i feel like copypasta the pages
you can hold the charge and make a UAS the next round, but you have to hit regular ac, not touch but get to do uas damage + spell damage and hold the charge if you miss
brain fail XD , edited for innaccuracy ;) don't mind me , brain aint quite awake yet
page 185 pathfinder core rule book is all you need
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the
target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with
either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and def lection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of
opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn.
Dismiss a Spell: Dismissing an active spell is a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.
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So, I've been thinking about touch spells a lot lately, and this prompts a few questions. When you cast a spell with a range of touch, do you get to make a touch attack as part of the casting action, or do you have to make a separate standard action attack for that? If it is the former, can you substitute the touch attack for an unarmed strike (assuming you have Imp. Unarmed Strike) and still use the same action?spells are standard actions
touch spells automatically hit if you can reach the target(if it require an attack roll it will say touch attack or ranged touch attack)
you'll notice spells that require a touch attack or ranged touch attack don't have a saving through
and vice versa
touch spells with saving throws don't require an attack roll to hit.
basically all designed to limit the amount of rolling required.
as to your question no you can't sub in touch attacks into a full unarmed attack action.
umm sorry, but you're wrong on alot of that.
some touch spells have a saving throw, and then you have to make the touch attack and they get a save. and read complete arcane, it poits out you can use a n unarmed strike to deliver a touch, but not in the same action as casting. also for ranged touches feats like point blank and precise shot apply.
also touch spells dont auto hit, thats what a touch ac and touch attacks are for, you have to make a touch attack on an enemy but you can automatically touch up to 6 allies (if a spell allows for multiple targets), but not enemies
also touch spells can crit (on a 20, they deal double damage)
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#1 You can make a single touch attack as part of casting a spell.
#2 If you can make unarmed strikes or natural attacks you can cast a spell and HOLD the charge for the next round then make a full attack and the first hit delivers the charge. If the spell has multiple charges each hit discharges an additional charge. If you choose to do this you are making a normal attack (not touch) and the attack does normal damage plus the touch effect.
#3 Touch spells may or may not have saving throws, generally they don't but some so.
#4 ANY time you are trying to deliver a range touch spell against an unwilling target you have to make a touch attack.
Most of the details are here. More on Touch Attacks in general.
instead of random links I figured it was just easier to copy the touch spell section from the core pathfinder rulebook.
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Thank you 0gre, I couldn't find the section that said you could touch in the same round as casting before. As for the rest of that section, it really intrigues me that you can cast, move, and then touch in the same round. I already knew most of the rest of what has been posted (regarding all other ways touch spells work) but we honestly haven't used offensive touch spells all that much in my group.
Umm. Random links that go to the text you posted?
why send someone elsewhere when we can be kind and deliver the text here
acutually after reading the section a bit closer I've realsied that if you miss with touch spell its not acutally wasted which is somthing I'd forgotten , might come in handy for an oracle build I'm working on.
but we honestly haven't used offensive touch spells all that much in my group.
I acutally find it interesting that touch spells are a bit of a rollercoaster when it comes to effectivness.
very early levels BAB's are pretty even and even casters can hit with attack rolls.
mid levels the monsters touch AC tends to get away from a casters touch attack bonus
and then at high levels as the Huge creatures turn up more and more the touch AC comes back down and caster if they're game enough to get that close have a very easy time landing touch spells
Umm. Random links that go to the text you posted?why send someone elsewhere when we can be kind and deliver the text hereI prefer to deliver the context so they can get an idea of where to find it in the future.
Give a man a fish...
hehehe nothing wrong with giving the man a free fish while teachin him to fish ;)
Offensive touch spells are tricky. Until I got an aberrant sorcerer I avoided them like the plague. Now they are just plain fun. Vampiric touch is a favorite :D
now there's a class combo I've been tempted to play since i first saw the reach ability. how does vampric touch fair at higher levels ? I assume you empower/maximise it for 80-90HP drain and temp HP to you ?
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Offensive touch spells are tricky. Until I got an aberrant sorcerer I avoided them like the plague. Now they are just plain fun. Vampiric touch is a favorite :Dnow there's a class combo I've been tempted to play since i first saw the reach ability. how does vampric touch fair at higher levels ? I assume you empower/maximise it for 80-90HP drain and temp HP to you ?
Usually I quicken it in combination with other spells actually. Or if combat is winding down or it's an easy encounter I use it to snag some temporary hit points. I call it pre-healing.
Usually I quicken it in combination with other spells actually. Or if combat is winding down or it's an easy encounter I use it to snag some temporary hit points. I call it pre-healing.Offensive touch spells are tricky. Until I got an aberrant sorcerer I avoided them like the plague. Now they are just plain fun. Vampiric touch is a favorite :Dnow there's a class combo I've been tempted to play since i first saw the reach ability. how does vampric touch fair at higher levels ? I assume you empower/maximise it for 80-90HP drain and temp HP to you ?
hahah pre-healing, I like , mind if I borrow that :)
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Hey ogre, and to anyone else whommight have insight into this question, has anyone played the war weaver prestige class from heroes of battle? I ask this because prior to getting the 5th level cap ability, the spells you release from your arcane web requires a move action, but you have to touch each person attached to the arcane web as the stored spell states. Of course, this is not a pathfinder prestige class, so it might not be viable under pathfinder rules. But I know the spirit of that prestige class is to deliver one spell to multiple people who were woven into the web at the beginning the day. I always took it as it cost me a move action to release the spells, then with my last move action, I would touch as many people that my 30ft movement could get me close enough to. I would love some input on this. And I didn't mean to hyjack the thread.
The abberant bloodline also works really well with the arcane trickster (which in turn works really well with touch attacks). As a general entry method I would recommend *caster 4/ Rogue 1/ Assassin 1/ Arcane Trickster.
Don't forget about the spectral hand spell too. If you can get that running at the beginning of a combat touch spells are much easier to deliver.
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Cuttin: I generally play pretty close to core. Under 3.5 even more so actually. So no.
Spectral hand is nice but the duration is too short essentially making it two actions to cast a touch spell. Considering how rare it is I get to pre-buff I generally stay clear of it.
I keep seeing this recommendation for grabbing assassin to get into Arcane Trickster and I have to shake my head. There just aren't a lot of people playing evil campaigns. If you are not playing evil and your GM is relaxing the evil assassin rule why not just relax the AT prereqs?
Well it depends on what levels you are starting at, and how much your GM is against evil characters, or if he allows previously evil characters, and how he feels about character growth and development.
For example a orphan rogue that finds he has magical powers and is developed by the local thieves guild for his talents that later finds redemption... yada yada yada is fairly staple for a fantasy setting (at least most part of it) and with talking to the GM before the game about such a concept they might be more willing to go for it.
I'm not so sure that "No Evil" games are quite that common. I do run such a game in the local FLGS however most of my other games allow for any alignment the player wants so long as the player or character is not overly disruptive to the campaign as a whole.
Also the GM might not bother with Alignments -- but could still be interested in keeping the mechanical requirements of prestige classes the same as they already are (based on this and other forums there are plenty of GMs that simply don't like the alignment system but like everything else). With such a GM changing the requirement for AT might not be allowed where as entry into the assassin PrC could be.
Don't mistake the assassin level as a give me either. For the sorcerer lead in getting the skill ranks is going to be at least a little painful, and the assassin level doesn't give much else beside the sneak attack dice.
By going this route you give up evasion, a point of BAB, and increased save throws, and a rogue talent -- it does however preserve your spell casting which is more important for a sorcerer than for a wizard in some respects (though is important for both) -- it is a trade, and not one everyone will want to make -- but for those that do it's a good one.
Another question
abberant sorceror with 10 or 15 feet reach does that mean he can start any spell which originates from the hand in pretty much any orewntation within his reach ?
e.g. standing 10 feet behind a fighter you reach just in front of him and blast the monster standing right in front of him with e.g. a cone effect spell ?
No it specifically states it only works with melee touch attacks. Not any other type of spell.
No it specifically states it only works with melee touch attacks. Not any other type of spell.
shame
still the above example would still work with a touch spell, which is handy