Oh man, the board ate my post! OK, let's try this again...
So, in a recent post I received a reply to a question so intriguing (and hilarious) it had me rethink my entire character concept for an upcoming Kingmaker game.
Get a cohort at level 7 who IS useful in combat and only really there, and just spend your time eating grapes and saying "go kill that thing, but make sure you use fire"
Wouldn't you know it, the DM approved the Leadership feat?
With Kingmaker allowing me to try to literally become a king, my thoughts move towards this option. What about a character who's extremely charismatic, but doesn't want to get his own hands dirty if he doesn't have to? I'd like to be viable in combat, of course...I do have 7 levels to go, and a cohort is no excuse for not sucking...
So, what do I do? I want the MAX charisma for this, so I have tons of people fawning over me. That leaves, as far as I can see, four options:
Bard, Cleric, Paladin, Oracle, Sorcerer, or some kind of gish (Dragon Disciple/Eldrich Knight, etc). Paladin and gish don't really seem to fit the type, but I mention it 'cause I've never played a gish, and it seems like it'd be fun.
It's a 20pt buy, by the way. No 3.5 stuff. Summoner is banned.
I'm looking for suggestions not only for stats/level/race/etc, but also, how do I make this work story/game/character wise. I don't want to alienate the party by being a dick, obviously.
Thanks in advance folks!
|
The thing that stands out is a Summoner or Conjurer (Wizard.) You want something that can summon monsters to fight for him, and unseen servants to peel his grapes! That is your ultimate Hedonism Bot build!
I once had a conjurer variant wizard in 3.5 that was overweight because he was lazy, he let his summons do all his work for him... Boy did he hate adventuring!
The thing that stands out is a Summoner or Conjurer (Wizard.) You want something that can summon monsters to fight for him, and unseen servants to peel his grapes! That is your ultimate Hedonism Bot build!
I once had a conjurer variant wizard in 3.5 that was overweight because he was lazy, he let his summons do all his work for him... Boy did he hate adventuring!
Ack, I didn't edit my post fast enough. Summoner is banned, at least until the final APG version comes out.
I want max Charisma, so if I do summon, it'll be Sorcerer or Bard, but that is a good idea...summoning. :)
Caster Druid who focuses on summmons. Wildshape into a small creature so you can ride on your cohort's back.
Since you will take Leadership, and that means followers...
Bard. All the way. The party won't expect you to get up and fight (just cast and use music), and buffs are best when applied to large groups (Warriors with Heavy Crossbows shoot, then charge in with Longspears, all while being inspired).
That seems like a great idea for big battles defending the kingdom, but I thought that followers don't go adventuring with you, only Cohorts do.
By the way, guys...any ideas for my cohort? I was thinking by 7th level I'll literally be the ruler of our small kingdom, so he could be like my personal retainer. (For real laughs, I could name him Jambi.) A monk seems good to me; no armor in the way to keep me from making him wear a butler's suit.
A bard is a good option, also a sorcerer, particulary one adept at using charm and guile both magical and mundane.
- destined bloodline, particulary suitable I think
- fey and infernal are both likely sources of charm focussed sorcerers
As to the followers, they CAN accompany you, they just are likely to die. But an honor guard may not be out of the question. Equip them well, and even these weak guys can be of some use. At a minimum, they can carry your palanquin.
Hm, the leadership feat says "cruelty" and "failure" can lower your leadership score. It doesn't specifically say losing followers, unlike cohorts, lowers your score, but if it keeps happening, that may be a negative...
"What happened Jambi?"
"Sir, it appears your litterbearers are dead."
"What, really? It was just a dragon's breath weapon."
"Sir, most people do tend to die from that."
"What? This is awful!"
"Sir, I'm...I'm surprised by your compassion."
"Compassion? ...Oh, yes, compassion. Um, alert their families."
"Yes sir."
"Oh, and Jambi...prepare the papoose."
"Sir, no. It's demeaning!"
"Dear gods, am I supposed to WALK now, Jambi?"
I think that if you are bard, they will be your groupies!
Another funny idea :)
So, most people seem to lean to bard, which is what I think fits for the leader type.
Traits, I'm thinking Noble: Orlovsky (since I have to have one of my traits be from the AP), and Natural Born Leader
Feats...suggestions? Also, like I said, the cohort...
I like the idea of being charm/diplomacy/perform:oratory heavy mentioned earlier. The hard part is not overlapping with my bardic versatility, or whatever that class ability is called where my perform takes over other skills.
Obviously, halfling or gnome seems right to me. The picture in my head is clearly a midget with a Napoleon complex.
|
Obviously, halfling or gnome seems right to me. The picture in my head is clearly a midget with a Napoleon complex.
The Prophets of the Kalistrade were *made* for this concept.
(I've played this character before, but he was a Ventrue who had his retainers do everything for him. Porting this concept over to d20 never really occured to me, since I'd have to wait until 6th or 7th level to get Leadership. But with the Summoner, I could certainly start out with a biped and name him Jeeves, or Jarvis, or Alfred.)
Obviously, halfling or gnome seems right to me. The picture in my head is clearly a midget with a Napoleon complex.The Prophets of the Kalistrade were *made* for this concept.
(I've played this character before, but he was a Ventrue who had his retainers do everything for him. Porting this concept over to d20 never really occured to me, since I'd have to wait until 6th or 7th level to get Leadership. But with the Summoner, I could certainly start out with a biped and name him Jeeves, or Jarvis, or Alfred.)
Well, never heard of the Prophets of Kalistrade, but like I said, the Summoner class is banned in this game.
|
|
Make a bard who starts a boyband, and have a crowd of shrieking teenage girls follow you everywhere, demanding your autograph. Everytime you go to a city, new groupies replace old ones (still commoners). Dungeons become crowded as your groupies and paparazzi follow you literally everywhere, recording your every move.
ALL your actions are laid bare to the world, and new inventions called tabloids are created to discuss and dissect your every move. However, the plus side is that everyone loves you until you do something stupid.
A bard is a good option, also a sorcerer, particulary one adept at using charm and guile both magical and mundane.
- destined bloodline, particulary suitable I think
- fey and infernal are both likely sources of charm focussed sorcerers
Well, Kingmaker does supposedly feature a lot of fey
The Destined bloodline, flavor-wise, really fits in with a leader. Heck, it even has Leadership as a bonus feat! Plus, I can totally dump strength, because a sorcerer needs it even less than bard (don't need to even carry that heavy chain shirt).
The bard has going for it the great amount of skills, though, and buffing excellence.
Now this is a hard decision :-/
I was just talking to my friend about variations of the Leadership feat.
He had the idea of being a Cleric with the Nobility Domain, and then his cohort would pick up the Leadership feat as well, and so on, and so on. All those followers becoming basically his following as he becomes the head of this sect of his religion.
I think the Hedonism Bot would work a lot better with the Thrallherd class. Shame it's psionics based.
I'd been looking at it lately and was thinking of making a version that fits an enchantment-based caster instead.
For a rundown on the Thrallherd, it's basically a psionicist that gains "leadership" in the form of attracting "followers" who are basically people who resonated to your powerful psychic call who want to do anything for you.
The best part? You suffer no loss in score for being cruel, etc. You can be a total selfish prick and they'll still do everything you want.
At high levels, you get a second cohort.
But yeah, if you aren't playing the Chaotic Evil (or psionics/enchantment), I Bard (for inspiring followers) or Sorcerer (for summons and unseen servant stuff to do everything for you) would become the best options.
As to the followers, they CAN accompany you, they just are likely to die. But an honor guard may not be out of the question. Equip them well, and even these weak guys can be of some use. At a minimum, they can carry your palanquin.Hm, the leadership feat says "cruelty" and "failure" can lower your leadership score. It doesn't specifically say losing followers, unlike cohorts, lowers your score, but if it keeps happening, that may be a negative...
Under the table for Leadership feat there's a –2 for: Caused the death of a cohort*
* Cumulative per cohort killed.and: Caused the death of other followers –1
As to the followers, they CAN accompany you, they just are likely to die. But an honor guard may not be out of the question. Equip them well, and even these weak guys can be of some use. At a minimum, they can carry your palanquin.Hm, the leadership feat says "cruelty" and "failure" can lower your leadership score. It doesn't specifically say losing followers, unlike cohorts, lowers your score, but if it keeps happening, that may be a negative...Under the table for Leadership feat there's a –2 for: Caused the death of a cohort*
* Cumulative per cohort killed.and: Caused the death of other followers –1
Welcome to the world of spin and smear!
''My lord, we lost another one..''
''Did we Jenkins, did we really? ...or did he go on a long sea voyage?''
....it's the perfect reason to have some lies and intrigue in your campaign - and see how far the character will go to keep his secrets secret.
LOL!
Welcome to the world of spin and smear!
''My lord, we lost another one..''
''Did we Jenkins, did we really? ...or did he go on a long sea voyage?''
....it's the perfect reason to have some lies and intrigue in your campaign - and see how far the character will go to keep his secrets secret.
I swear by all the dice in my bag that if the DM lets me get away with that, you can bet a Gold-Pewter Giant d20 that I will be doing it!
Brilliant!
So, I do need to think of a better cohort name that isn't just a rip off of someone else. Funny as Jambi, Alfred, Jenkins, and the rest are, they would be merely stealing it. It SHOULD be a last name. It should also be in that same category of dignified but subservient.
Man, I really wish there was a large-sized biped I could use as a cohort at a lower level than 18th...
Also, any feat suggestions (besides Leadership, obviously)?
|
Sorcerer? Go for Ray feats, Save DC feats, or metamagic. Quicken is very very nice now.
Bard? Well, there's a lot of ways to go...Extra Music and defensive feats will help you survive, and Improved Initiative is never bad. That'll take you through 5th, and then Leadership for....another Bard?
We've often kicked around the idea that our PC's are a group of Cohorts, all running errands for incredibly powerful Bard PC's. This could lead to something similar in the future.
I think those are your best choices for what you're looking for, and both are a lot of fun to play. If you can get away with in game shenanigans like rabble rousing, inciting riots, or the like, even better.
To top all that off...with a select bunch of Illusion spells, you can trick people into buying your crazy bluffs.
"You and what army, little man?!?" - Big scary fighter.
"Oh, just that one," wave hand, gesture towards army of lizardfolk/trolls/goblins/etc... in the midground.
That can get you out of (and into) a lot of trouble right there.
So, I do need to think of a better cohort name that isn't just a rip off of someone else. Funny as Jambi, Alfred, Jenkins, and the rest are, they would be merely stealing it. It SHOULD be a last name. It should also be in that same category of dignified but subservient.
Possible names: Mr Gibbons, Mr Sands, Mr Edderson etc -- something old fashioned, preferably a surname - if you learn their first name... well, it's like naming an animal you capture in the wild - makes it so much harder to eat it later.
The 'Mr' is a good affectation for reminding underlings that you're playing nice because you can choose to do so...
''Ah Mr Gibbons, so glad you could finally join us - be sure to report your tardiness to Master Flogger on your way out.''
Also, any feat suggestions (besides Leadership, obviously)?
I have the same problem >_< I'm creating a social/espionage bard who will fill a similair niche as your proposed character - tho he'll be slightly more active and human shaped (else the other players *will* lynch him!)
Honestly tho, that's the key power of social/well RP'd social characters - you don't need many feats, just the smarts to know what to say and who to say it to. It's not something you can easily represent in an abstract manner so personally I'm looking at feats that add flavour to the character.
I'm also looking at spells to gather infomation and discover secrets - then the character will use the infomation to pull strings. A decent network of powerful allies is easily a match for a 9th level spell slinging wizard - ..and said wizard can, with the right motivation, easily become part of the character's network.
I really wish there was a large-sized biped I could use as a cohort at a lower level than 18th...
How about this - upgrade to Ogres/Giants/Golems as you level..
On the contrary, do the opposite - the primary character is the one who charges into battle. Play as the cohort. That way, the guy in the fight is the higher level - and better at fighting - one.
On the contrary, do the opposite - the primary character is the one who charges into battle. Play as the cohort. That way, the guy in the fight is the higher level - and better at fighting - one.
My social/espionage bard is down to be the cohort of my older retired character - a level 16 Diviner!
''Get out! Get out now! Don't take the stairs!