*mutters to self* This time the boards had better not eat my post....
OK, gonna try this again. I've been working on a character concept, and this time want to ask the gang here for input BEFORE I commit him to play. I've been thinking of playing a Duelist for a while, I've been curious about finesse-based fighters (small f, not necessarily the Fighter class) for a while, and might have a chance to play one some time soon. Duelist seems the best path for the type of character I want to play (Errol Flynn-style, big on flashiness and style as well as combat effectiveness, being able to defend against multiple attackers at once, etc.), but HOW to get her there... I have come up with a plan, and a reason for it. Here are the base assumptions I'm using:
1. I want to be able to create the character using only Core Rulebook material. Anything from other sources are questionable, since I don't have much of a budget for buying new gaming material right now.
2. I want to get her to the Dueist PrC as quickly as possible without compromising one other goal:
3. I want her to have Improved Uncanny Dodge. It just seems like a no-brainer for this type of character.
The game that I'm considering her for will start at level 7. She won't quite be to Duelist by then, but she'll make it at L8. Here's the progression I hjave in mind:
Race: Human
Level:
1 Barbarian 1: Fast Movement; Rage. Feats: Dodge, Improved Initiative
2 Barbarian 2: Rage Power(Unexpected Strike); Uncanny Dodge
3 Fighter 1: Bonus Feat (Quick Draw). Feat: Mobility
4 Rogue 1: Sneak Attack +1d6; trapfinding
5 Rogue 2: Evasion; Rogue Talent(Weapon Training). Feat: Spring Attack
6 Rogue 3: Sneak Attack +2d6; Trap sense +1.
7 Rogue 4: Rogue Talent (Finesse Rogue); Uncanny Dodge (stacks with Barbarian UD to be Improved UD). Feat: Dazzling Display
And suggestions?
I would say get the extra rage and power attack feats at some point, but I love this build. Reminds me of Porthos for some reason. I might suggest dropping the fighter level for annother Barbarian. You get +2 fort save this way, but your will save will be a +1 at lvl 7, which is not nice.
Interesting point about Extra Rage and Power attack. When I first thought of this build, I had intended to play her as eschewing the use oif her rage altogether -- I know, that gimps the character a bit, but it fit into the idea that she was embracing a new fighting style AND lifestyle. But now that you mention Porthos, I can see where the rage might fit, and I'm realizing it doesn't impede any of the finesse-based abilities.
As for the level of fighter: When I came up with the build, I knew I had to take the 2 levels of Barb and 4 of rogue specifically for the Uncanny Dodges. But that left me 1 shy of the required BAB for Duelist. That meant I had to pick a class that would add 1 to her BAB in one level -- which meant either another level of Barb, or 1 level of some other class that is +1 at L1. More Rogue was right out. When debating between the Fighter and the Barbarian, what won me over was the bonus feat. If I do decide, in the end, that it's worth giving up one of those feats in order to improve her will save, it will be a tossup between staying with the level of fighter and swapping out one of the feats (Probably improved initiative, since the Duelist gets Improved Reaction) for Iron Will, or taking your advice and going qith Barb 3. One gives me a +2 boost to Fort and a Will save of +3, the other a will save of +2, but also an extra +1 to Reflex saves and to Trap Sense and 2 more rounds of Rage.
Along with the feats you mentioned, I'm also considering finishing out the Dazzling Display tree, Nimble Moves and Acrobatic Step, Whirlwind Attack, and Improved Critical.
Bump
I'll take a look at least, as you said, but as with any character, she's evolving as I develop her, and I'm starting to get away from the classic image of the Musketeer duelist, and really like the barbarian/fighter/rogue path to duelist. I usually start out with a character concept and then find a class that fits the concept. This time I wanted to let my inner munchkin out for once, and find the optimal path for a given class, THEN come up with a character concept that fit it. But somewhere along the way, the character concept got out of its cage and is taking over my thoughts regarding the character. Here's what I have so far:
My character is a human female, a member of a nomadic barbarian tribe. In her culture, tribes function much like lion prides in reverse, in that it's the men who go hunting, and the women who guard the tribe's territory. When she was a young woman, the men of the tribe were away on an expedition to hunt and trade when the tribes encampment was attacked by slavers. The slavers were so impressed by the ferocity of the women of this tribe, especially my character, that instead of selling her as breeding stock or a houseslave or pleasure slave, they sold her to a trainer of gladiators or pit fighters, to train as a novelty in a land with a patriarchal society -- a woman fighter. She learned quickly that even though she was as tough as any man, the difference in size between her and her opponents meant she couldn't rewly entirely on strength, and so her owner trained her to use stealth and finesse. She eventually earned her freedom through her wins in the pits, and she walked away from that career, becoming an adventurer in order to hunt slavers.
But I find myself in a catch-22: If I go this route, I feel almost compelled to use the raier for mechanical reasons (this is why, but it doesn't fit with the character concept.
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You can't take the unexpected strike rage power at 2nd level and only can take it at or after 8th level... but I have my own suggestion... that's take intimidating glare which lets you demoralize an enemy as a move action... Actually I have my own angry duelist type that I'm trying to play and I really like the idea of adding a touch of barbarian to his build (playing Curse of Crimson Throne and he's a widowed Varisian character thus the anger issues). Also on the rapier issue... you can use a morningstar aswell cause it's a one handed piercing/bludgeoning weapon... this lets you beat those pesky skeletal creatures down while still getting your precise strike bonus and such.
You can't take the unexpected strike rage power at 2nd level and only can take it at or after 8th level... but I have my own suggestion... that's take intimidating glare which lets you demoralize an enemy as a move action... Actually I have my own angry duelist type that I'm trying to play and I really like the idea of adding a touch of barbarian to his build (playing Curse of Crimson Throne and he's a widowed Varisian character thus the anger issues). Also on the rapier issue... you can use a morningstar aswell cause it's a one handed piercing/bludgeoning weapon... this lets you beat those pesky skeletal creatures down while still getting your precise strike bonus and such.
Yeah, for the Duelist features AND Finesse, I could also use a Dagger, punching dagger, spiked gauntlet, light pick, Star knife, or short sword -- all of which pretty much suck as a main weapon for a frontline fighter, they're more for dual wielders or as backup weapons. Or I could use a shortspear, heavy pick, or trident -- all of which cannot use the finesse feat.
*sigh* I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and go with the rapier.
You can't take the unexpected strike rage power at 2nd level and only can take it at or after 8th level... but I have my own suggestion... that's take intimidating glare which lets you demoralize an enemy as a move action...
Except that I'm goign with Dazzling display, which is a full round action, but demoralizes a lot more people. I found a better Rage Power for the chandelier-swinging swashbuckler -- Raging Leaper.
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1. I want to be able to create the character using only Core Rulebook material. Anything from other sources are questionable, since I don't have much of a budget for buying new gaming material right now...
And suggestions?
In our Rise of the Runelords campaign, one of my players has made an excellent swashbuckler using the monk class from the main rulebook. We just changed the name of a few class abilities to account for the changed theme, and modified the unarmed strike/flurry ability a bit.
The short, short description is that he deals the monks "unarmed damage" with his swashbucklery weapons (light blades) and his special abilities are based off Charisma instead of Wisdom. Voila, instant swashbuckler.
*mutters to self* This time the boards had better not eat my post....
OK, gonna try this again. I've been working on a character concept, and this time want to ask the gang here for input BEFORE I commit him to play. I've been thinking of playing a Duelist for a while, I've been curious about finesse-based fighters (small f, not necessarily the Fighter class) for a while, and might have a chance to play one some time soon. Duelist seems the best path for the type of character I want to play (Errol Flynn-style, big on flashiness and style as well as combat effectiveness, being able to defend against multiple attackers at once, etc.), but HOW to get her there... I have come up with a plan, and a reason for it. Here are the base assumptions I'm using:
1. I want to be able to create the character using only Core Rulebook material. Anything from other sources are questionable, since I don't have much of a budget for buying new gaming material right now.
2. I want to get her to the Dueist PrC as quickly as possible without compromising one other goal:
3. I want her to have Improved Uncanny Dodge. It just seems like a no-brainer for this type of character.The game that I'm considering her for will start at level 7. She won't quite be to Duelist by then, but she'll make it at L8. Here's the progression I hjave in mind:
Race: Human
Level:
1 Barbarian 1: Fast Movement; Rage. Feats: Dodge, Improved Initiative
2 Barbarian 2: Rage Power(Unexpected Strike); Uncanny Dodge
3 Fighter 1: Bonus Feat (Quick Draw). Feat: Mobility
4 Rogue 1: Sneak Attack +1d6; trapfinding
5 Rogue 2: Evasion; Rogue Talent(Weapon Training). Feat: Spring Attack
6 Rogue 3: Sneak Attack +2d6; Trap sense +1.
7 Rogue 4: Rogue Talent (Finesse Rogue); Uncanny Dodge (stacks with Barbarian UD to be Improved UD). Feat: Dazzling DisplayAnd suggestions?
I'd stay away from the Dazzling Display tree. As the levels rise, fear becomes less and less affective against many, many things. Seconding what Kalyth said about the TOS Swashbuckler. I've been playing one, and I'm quite fond of the class.
EDIT: And oh yeah, the TOS Swashbuckler gets Improved Uncanny Dodge as a class feature.