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"Private-equity firm Providence Equity Partners is in preliminary discussions with Hasbro, one of the world's largest toymakers, to take the company private in a leveraged buyout.
The talks are still in their early stages and may not lead to a deal. Hasbro has a market capitalization of about $6 billion. A leveraged buyout of Hasbro, an S&P 500 company that owns the G.I. Joe, Transformers and Nerf brands, would mark the year's largest private-equity deal."
Well, we'll see, I guess. I wonder what this bodes for WotC, in the long run.If they are into Profit...they may reactivate the older abandoned D&D settings - opening to the larger market.
Ya knwo that might loose money, to many setting was one of the issues. I loved em but they cost money and fractured the fan base and lost sales.
I'm all for it. Anything that gets the brand out of the hands of a corporation....
Unless of course they're an ultra anti-D&D religious group out to kill the brand, that would be pretty lame.
It means most likely nothing for WotC and for D&D as most companies - including Hasbro - are very hands-off.
Plus, the link claiming Hasbro will make the deal is literally "Well this one guy completely unrelated says 'UH-HUH THEY WILL!'"
I'm all for it. Anything that gets the brand out of the hands of a corporation....
Unless of course they're an ultra anti-D&D religious group out to kill the brand, that would be pretty lame.
If they are attempting to take control of Hasbro its likely going to be a leveraged buy out. Sine Hasbro is worth 6 billion give or take the private equaty firm is going to have to raise (borrow) maybe 4 billion dollars to pull this off. Thats fine and it certainly can be done but leveraged buy outs are some what risky. Once they pull this off the Private Equaty firm now has creditors knocking on their door demanding the interest payments on 4 billion dollars.
Hence the object being acquired needs to make cash - as much as possible as quickly as possible so that you can pay off the 4 billion dollar loan as quickly as possible and start seeing profits.
Some of the key features one wants to see in the target of a leveraged buy out:
* Low existing debt loads;
* A multi-year history of stable and recurring cash flows;
* Hard assets (property, plant and equipment, inventory, receivables) that may be used as collateral for lower cost secured debt;
* The potential for new management to make operational or other improvements to the firm to boost cash flows;
* Market conditions and perceptions that depress the valuation or stock price.
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Your getting pessimistic. Am I rubbing off on you?Re: WOTC....
MTG gets kept.D&D gets either sold off (which could be good) or dissolved within 1-2 years of the takeover (which could be bad).
I'm leaning toward dissolved.TMI dude! We don't need to know about you rubbing all over Heathy!
:)
I knew this mange came from somewhere.
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I knew this mange came from somewhere.Your getting pessimistic. Am I rubbing off on you?Re: WOTC....
MTG gets kept.D&D gets either sold off (which could be good) or dissolved within 1-2 years of the takeover (which could be bad).
I'm leaning toward dissolved.TMI dude! We don't need to know about you rubbing all over Heathy!
:)
Ew?
I think it's optimistic of me to say that they might sell the intellectual property to another entity...
I'm betting on the other way around though.
kicks a soccer ball across the thread
Oooh, wait, I'm not allowed to do that!
Why on earth would they sell or dissolve D&D at all?
Why would they even touch it?
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When you LBO, you want a buncha cash fast. You're not doing it cos you love toys. You're doing it to.....harvest a whale.
You don't care about a beloved intellectual property, even if your kid plays it.
You want a buncha cash.
So the question boils down to this, and I admit it's a simplification of things, but it's like this.
Say spending 50 cents on MTG gets you $1.00 roi.
Then, say spending 50 cents on D&D gets you....65 cents.
Now.
If you're in it for the long run, the 65 cents might be palatable; who knows.....intellectual properties mean future potentialities i.e. a movie, a cartoon on cartoon network with action figure sales, a D&D based MMORPG.
BUT,
if you want a fast roi, you want to streamline operations, fire as many people as possible, maximize short term cashflows,...i.e. if you're an investment firm there to gut Hasbro like a whale carcass,
you're going to want to shut down D&D and dump the expenditures into something more profitable like....MTG. Or Transformers figures. Or whathaveyou; whatever's the most profitable.
You don't want to be paying people money.
I admit, I could be wrong, I haven't studied the situation beyond the two articles proffered above. Hasbro might not even go for it.
I just.....have a hunch that that's how these things go down.
Kinda why I'm glad Paizo divested away from 4e/WOTC's intellectual properties.
See, this type of gloom and doom scenario might not happen but it's always a possibility.
Why on earth would they sell or dissolve D&D at all?
Why would they even touch it?
Bud Fox: "Why do you need to wreck this company?"
Gordon Gekko: "Because it's WRECKABLE, all right? I took another look at it and I changed my mind!"Edit: Or what what the warewoof just said above.
Blue Heathy loves Anacott Steel.
I like to touch stuff.
dissolving a 20 year old IP with no profit isn't likely, when they can sell of the IP and get something for it.
sorry 30+ year old IP
When I first saw this my immediate thought was LBO = Asset Stripping but who would they sell the various lines to? Hasbro is the big player in the market place and I doubt any of it's competitors could afford the asking price for stuff like Risk and Monopoly never mind Transformers and GI Joe
When I first saw this my immediate thought was LBO = Asset Stripping but who would they sell the various lines to? Hasbro is the big player in the market place and I doubt any of it's competitors could afford the asking price for stuff like Risk and Monopoly never mind Transformers and GI Joe
Why, Disney, of course! And next year, D&D 5 will release (that being Daisy & Donald, of course)! >_> <_<
When I first saw this my immediate thought was LBO = Asset Stripping but who would they sell the various lines to? Hasbro is the big player in the market place and I doubt any of it's competitors could afford the asking price for stuff like Risk and Monopoly never mind Transformers and GI JoeWhy, Disney, of course! And next year, D&D 5 will release (that being Daisy & Donald, of course)! >_> <_<
OMGNO!!! KILLMENOW!!!
OMGNO!!! KILLMENOW!!!When I first saw this my immediate thought was LBO = Asset Stripping but who would they sell the various lines to? Hasbro is the big player in the market place and I doubt any of it's competitors could afford the asking price for stuff like Risk and Monopoly never mind Transformers and GI JoeWhy, Disney, of course! And next year, D&D 5 will release (that being Daisy & Donald, of course)! >_> <_<
Bah, how bad can it be? I think hasbro/wotc has butchered the game already. It's still not a huge financial success and the social stigma is still so bad hard-core computer gamers (not those who play casual stuff with their grandmothers on the Wii or Nintendo DS) can safely look down on roleplayers.
Disney could fix all that!
After one animated film about a slightly clumsy but good-hearted wizard's apprentice, his punchy familiar sidekick and his friend the young barbarian hero go on an adventure to save the young spellslinger's secret love, and you can bring the game to a wide audience complete with adoring mothers. There won't be talk about a devil's game after you can get little D&D wizards and dragons with your happy meal!
And Disney would fix many of the things people dislike about the game, too!
One of the points of critique about the Monster Manuals is that there is so little flavour information - it's only attack stats and the like. Disney would fix that! (Of course, most of the extra fluff would be list of humorous punchlines and funny remarks the critters would keep saying. And the "everything has big eyes" style of art might need some getting used too.
Of course, the 4e tiers (what were those? Something about hero, epic, paragon) would be replaced by Feature Film, Direct-To-Video Sequel, and Spin-Off TV Series.
You'd definitely need some "courage" mechanic to show how the hero's growth when he leads a valuable lesson somewhere during the campaign.
And, of course, every party would have only one hero, the rest would be sidekicks, probably with extra game mechanics.
And all the campaign settings would either go or undergo another spell-plague-like transformation to fit Disney's visions, but the game is used to that by now!
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When you LBO, you want a buncha cash fast. You're not doing it cos you love toys. You're doing it to.....harvest a whale.
You don't care about a beloved intellectual property, even if your kid plays it.
You want a buncha cash.
So the question boils down to this, and I admit it's a simplification of things, but it's like this.
Say spending 50 cents on MTG gets you $1.00 roi.
Then, say spending 50 cents on D&D gets you....65 cents.
Now.
If you're in it for the long run, the 65 cents might be palatable; who knows.....intellectual properties mean future potentialities i.e. a movie, a cartoon on cartoon network with action figure sales, a D&D based MMORPG.
BUT,
if you want a fast roi, you want to streamline operations, fire as many people as possible, maximize short term cashflows,...i.e. if you're an investment firm there to gut Hasbro like a whale carcass,
you're going to want to shut down D&D and dump the expenditures into something more profitable like....MTG. Or Transformers figures. Or whathaveyou; whatever's the most profitable.
You don't want to be paying people money.
I admit, I could be wrong, I haven't studied the situation beyond the two articles proffered above. Hasbro might not even go for it.
I just.....have a hunch that that's how these things go down.
Kinda why I'm glad Paizo divested away from 4e/WOTC's intellectual properties.
See, this type of gloom and doom scenario might not happen but it's always a possibility.
That seems roughly right to me. The caveat I would make is that there are other ways to cut costs but otherwise exploit a brand with some serious name recognition. That could involve a lot of licencing, simply paying a fixed fee and getting someone else to make the products. So there could be more work for smaller outfits, frelancers and so on. I would suspect they will try more spin-offs, like computer games. They might even sell the brand if the price is right. But overall it is probably not good for anyone actually employed by WotC on the D&D side.
And, of course, every party would have only one hero, the rest would be sidekicks, probably with extra game mechanics.
Don't forget that the sidekicks would be mildly offensive racial stereotypes.
When you LBO, you want a buncha cash fast. You're not doing it cos you love toys. You're doing it to.....harvest a whale.
You don't care about a beloved intellectual property, even if your kid plays it.
You want a buncha cash.
So the question boils down to this, and I admit it's a simplification of things, but it's like this.
Say spending 50 cents on MTG gets you $1.00 roi.
Then, say spending 50 cents on D&D gets you....65 cents.
Now.
If you're in it for the long run, the 65 cents might be palatable; who knows.....intellectual properties mean future potentialities i.e. a movie, a cartoon on cartoon network with action figure sales, a D&D based MMORPG.
BUT,
if you want a fast roi, you want to streamline operations, fire as many people as possible, maximize short term cashflows,...i.e. if you're an investment firm there to gut Hasbro like a whale carcass,
you're going to want to shut down D&D and dump the expenditures into something more profitable like....MTG. Or Transformers figures. Or whathaveyou; whatever's the most profitable.
You don't want to be paying people money.
I admit, I could be wrong, I haven't studied the situation beyond the two articles proffered above. Hasbro might not even go for it.
I just.....have a hunch that that's how these things go down.
Kinda why I'm glad Paizo divested away from 4e/WOTC's intellectual properties.
See, this type of gloom and doom scenario might not happen but it's always a possibility.
Your hunch is incorrect.
There's been no sign that 4e is no longer profitable. Why would you kill off a profitable investment for no damn reason?
This thread is pure insanity.
This thread is pure insanity.
NO!
THIS......IS......SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAATAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Maybe Time/Warner'll snap up the brand or something.
Or maybe the buyout won't work.
Nothing's 100% in this life but death and taxes.
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When I first saw this my immediate thought was LBO = Asset Stripping but who would they sell the various lines to? Hasbro is the big player in the market place and I doubt any of it's competitors could afford the asking price for stuff like Risk and Monopoly never mind Transformers and GI JoeWhy, Disney, of course! And next year, D&D 5 will release (that being Daisy & Donald, of course)! >_> <_<
Yes but they spent so much on Marvel do they have any left? Also if Disney were to buy WotC does that mean the kids from the animated tv series will have a cameo along with Wolverine in Kingdom Hearts: Forgotten Realms?
Insanity is nothing to laugh at.
I dont believe Disney would be any worse than Hasbro. Prince of Persia and Pirates of the Carribean is pretty good after all.
If Disney bring in the kids and leave the more mature stuff to others (like Paizo), this could be a fine split of the market.
The beloved Forgotten Realms is already wrecked, so that can only improve as far as I am concerned.
I dont believe Disney would be any worse than Hasbro. Prince of Persia and Pirates of the Carribean is pretty good after all.
If Disney bring in the kids and leave the more mature stuff to others (like Paizo), this could be a fine split of the market.
Disney does a lot more than kids stuff, though it does the adult things under different subsidiaries. A Disney company released Dogma.
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Disney does a lot more than kids stuff, though it does the adult things under different subsidiaries. A Disney company released Dogma.I dont believe Disney would be any worse than Hasbro. Prince of Persia and Pirates of the Carribean is pretty good after all.
If Disney bring in the kids and leave the more mature stuff to others (like Paizo), this could be a fine split of the market.
No sh!t? I didn't know that...
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No sh!t? I didn't know that...Disney does a lot more than kids stuff, though it does the adult things under different subsidiaries. A Disney company released Dogma.I dont believe Disney would be any worse than Hasbro. Prince of Persia and Pirates of the Carribean is pretty good after all.
If Disney bring in the kids and leave the more mature stuff to others (like Paizo), this could be a fine split of the market.
Disney has had various subsidiaries that have released much more adult titles from time to time. They are more then willing to feast upon any cash cow they can get, or make.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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There's been no sign that 4e is no longer profitable. Why would you kill off a profitable investment for no damn reason?
Because you could make more money focusing those resources on a product line with a larger profit margin.
I tend to think D&D is far enough down the food chain not to be noticed by Hasbro in a buy out situation, but then again, it's really hard to make predictions in a scenario like this. On the one hand, Hasbro has been hands-off on WotC, a LBO deal is likely to leave existing Hasbro brass in play, and those people will likely continue the hands-off strategy. Or, it could be that post LBO, a sharp focus is put on the bottom line and the least profitable divisions are slashed and burned. If D&D were such a division, it could suffer or be killed (at least in tabletop form).
I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which such a deal could herald good news for D&D, but I'm open to being surprised.
Yes but they spent so much on Marvel do they have any left? Also if Disney were to buy WotC does that mean the kids from the animated tv series will have a cameo along with Wolverine in Kingdom Hearts: Forgotten Realms?That would actually be kind of cool :-)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Insanity is nothing to laugh at.
Usually, it laughs at you!
Ahaha!
Ahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!