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I have a player who wants to play a displacer beast that grows up in a new campaign. She kinda has a thing for the lil' kitties.
I am looking for a way to make this happen and I don't really have any real idea how to proceed. I am looking for 10 levels of progression that would keep this beast even with PCs and slowly add attacks and abilities until it is 'grown' and gains it's full potential and all.
Any and all help is needed.
Thanks all.
Savage Species breakdowns for a level-by-level progression for size and ability ups. I do it all the time for the various odd PCs my players come up with (current is a Storm Giant, working fine, right at same power curve as a PF Fighter).
If you want (and if I can find the time), I could spin up a progression for you. Pathfinder or 3.5 stats?
I want to start her off as either small or medium and eventually growing into large also....
Heh. I was just seeing if anyone else had already done this.
There wasn't a specific class in Savage Races, but I tried to follow its guidelines. I ended up something that was, aside from Displacement, inferior to
a druid's animal companion. And Displacer Beasts are cool, but I'm not sure they're /that/ cool...
(Displacer Beasts are less powerful under Pathfinder than 3.5 for a few reasons. Most importantly, they're all about the tentacles: two primary attacks with reach and one secondary attack without is much better than two secondary attacks with reach and one primary without. Also, being Large is just as bad as it was under 3.5 and yet not as good for grapples and combat maneuvers. Lastly, all the other classes got a power up.)
So, I changed a few other things to adjust it to Pathfinder. This included bumping the hit die (since most classes have), reducing the level adjust by 1, and giving multiattack as a bonus feat. I slightly bumped the natural armor, and I stole some goodies from Big Cat (pounce, rake, scent) at various levels. It doesn't make much difference, but in the interest of simplification I ditched only getting skill points at certain levels. (This nets me two extra skills over nine levels with the Int penalty.)
This ends up bringing me up to roughly equal "Big Cat" companion with 10' tentacles and Displacement, plus some minor benefits like Darkvision. (At 20 point buy, I'd have identical Strength and Dex, a little more Con, though similar hp due to fewer hit dice, a little less saves, a bit less Wisdom and AC (that's what Displacement's for!). With the added attacks, I'd also have identical offensive combat ability, except that my secondary attacks would have reach. Oh, and I get big when a druid does rather than when his companion does -- obviously that's easily adjusted if you think it's too soon, and I do really like the idea of starting out small, now that it's been suggested.
Two more notes: Savage Species says that you can only progress in your monstrous class until you finish it, and speaking as someone who loves to multiclass in strange and hopefully overpowered ways, I think that's a good rule. It also says that, no matter what alignment the character is, it also continues to have the subtype of the class monster they're derived from -- a Displacer Beast is "usually Lawful Evil" but its type is just "Magical Beast" so I think I'm ok in that regard.
level.....hitdice/ba.....natarmor.....saves
1.........1d12...........+1............1/1/0
2.........2............. +2............1/1/1
3.........2............. ............. 2/2/1
4.........3............. ............. 2/2/1
5.........3............. +3 ...........3/3/2
6.........4............. +5............3/3/2
7.........4............. +6............4/4/2
8.........5............. ............. 4/4/2
9.........6 .............+7............5/5/2
1: Starting ability adjustments: +2 str, +2 dex, -6 Int, +2Wis, -2Cha. A displacer beast starts as a size Medium Magical Beast. It has +1 natural armor and two tentacle attacks (with 5' reach).
2: +2 Con, scent
3: +2 dex, +1 natural armor
4: +2 Con
5: Displacement: Starting at 5th level, any melee or ranged attack directed at a displacer beast has a 20% miss chance unless the attacker can locate the displacer beast by some other means than sight. The displacer beast also gains a +4 racial bonus on Stealth (Hide).
6: The displacer beast grows to size Large. +4 strength, -2 dex, +2 natural armor. Its tentacles gain 10' reach, and it gains a bite (5' reach). It also gains Multiattack as a bonus feat, even if it does not otherwise qualify for it.
7: +2 Con, +1 natural armor. The displacer beast gains the grab ability.
8: +2 Dex. The displacer beast gains rake.
9: +2 Str. The displacer beast becomes fully displaced and its miss chance increases to 50%, and the Hide bonus increases to +8. It gains +1 natural armor and pounce.
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Savage Species breakdowns for a level-by-level progression for size and ability ups. I do it all the time for the various odd PCs my players come up with (current is a Storm Giant, working fine, right at same power curve as a PF Fighter).
If you want (and if I can find the time), I could spin up a progression for you. Pathfinder or 3.5 stats?
Pathfinder if you could. I don't have Savage Species.....
3milechild is the player that is requesting this and I have the progression she came up with above, but I am unsure how it is balance-wise and really don't know how to judge that so well....So if you don't want to whip up a progression then maybe just checking out her work and giving me an evaluation on how it would stack up power-wise to other PCs in a 20 pt buy PRPG game.
So if you don't want to whip up a progression then maybe just checking out her work and giving me an evaluation on how it would stack up power-wise to other PCs in a 20 pt buy PRPG game.
I think the short answer is that it would be a considerable balance issue to a 20pt PRPG game. The Displacer Beast has big big advantages in combat.
How about a leopard race or a cat race or witches familiar?
Sigurd
I think the short answer is that it would be a considerable balance issue to a 20pt PRPG game. The Displacer Beast has big big advantages in combat.
Not really, unless you consider a big cat druid's animal companion (without the druid) a considerable balance issue. Strength, and dex are identical and hp nearly so; the only combat differences are tentacles (secondary, but with reach) vs claws (primary).
Defensively, at 10th level a plain (no spells, no items) Big Cat companion has an AC of 23, meaning an average CR10 needs a 5 to hit with its good attack, hitting about 75% of the time. A displacement beast's ac is about 18, meaning it won't be missed except on a 1; it's hit 95% of the time, or about 48% of the time with displacement. A little math yields an effective ac of 28.5; if the druid casts Barkskin on his companion for +4, the displacer beast is up almost 2 AC. Except that the displacer beast has much greater vulnerability to critical hits (since they'll still confirm 95%). And that's the best case scenario -- if the encounter is made up of more than one monster -- which is pretty usual -- they probably have lower to-hit, meaning AC is more important and displacement is less important. And Displacer Beast also takes a bigger hit when monsters decide to power attack.
Edit: tl;dr version: Actually, I'm pretty sure that in most play, a 10th level Displacer Beast will be hit more often, for more damage than the Big Cat animal companion of a similar level druid.
Given all that, I don't really think what effects to a 1.5 AC advantage at best and reach with inferior damaging attacks is a "big big advantage" compared to a class feature.
I will check my math tomorrow, and possibly run the numbers at a few other levels, but although I'm someone who loves to twist rules to my own overpowered ends (muahahaha!), I don't think the basics here are unreasonable.
As to a familiar cat, the single way you could possibly make that workable would be... err. Well, I don't think you could, not even with it having 1 hit die. Unless it has a negative level adjust... even so, you'd have to figure a way to become small (if you were going to be a finesse rogue) or be cleric, I suppose, since there's not a huge wisdom penalty. Though, you wouldn't be able to speak or cast spells as a cleric, so, no. Not really. Edit: Deaf Oracle? Cats have 7 Cha, but I knew a dwarven Oracle once...
I think a balanced way to do this would be to base the displacer beast on a Summoner's eidolon. Folks can argue both ways about whether Summoner is a balanced class, but certainly an eidolon without a medium BAB PC and a bunch of summoned critters helping out must be weaker than the Summoner. if he's even vaguely balanced then a lone eidolon should be fine.
A quadraped eidolon which takes two tentacles at 1st level, reach at 2nd level, and large size at 6th level will be perfectly on track to emulate a 3.5 style displacer beast. By 8th level she'd have 6HD and be "fully grown" for a normal displacer beast. It also might be fun to add on stuff which normal DB's don't have in 3.5, such as claw attacks, pounce, etc. It is relatively easy to gauge how fast these abilities should be gained by buying them with evolution points just like a regular eidolon. Perhaps the most important evolution is Huge size, available around 11th level. It is a big deal since it would allow the use of the rather cool Displacer Beast Pack Lord mini. Huge eidolons can probably be real bruisers, but Huge size is often its own punishment in dungeons, so it should all balance out.
The important thing about displacer beasts is displacement though. The simplest way to handle this is to just add 10% miss chance every 2 levels. The 10% miss chance at 2nd level isn't a huge deal, and starting at 4th level a normal eidolon could have a Summoner casting Blur on her in most combats. Sure, she wouldn't have Blur until the Summoner's initiative, but it isn't like it would cost her a standard action, and the Summoner would probably cast other buffs (Mage Armor comes to mind). That's not to mention summoning flankers and making some melee attacks. Displacement is available to eidolons at 6th level and Summoners at 7th level. They can cast it 4 times per day by 10th level, so really the only time the DB with "always on" displacement is at a big advantage is while she's flat footed.
As to a familiar cat, the single way you could possibly make that workable would be... err. Well, I don't think you could, not even with it having 1 hit die. Unless it has a negative level adjust... even so, you'd have to figure a way to become small (if you were going to be a finesse rogue) or be cleric, I suppose, since there's not a huge wisdom penalty. Though, you wouldn't be able to speak or cast spells as a cleric, so, no. Not really. Edit: Deaf Oracle? Cats have 7 Cha, but I knew a dwarven Oracle once...
Cat Oracle
Str 2, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 12
hp: 9, AC 16 (16 touch, 12 ff)
init: +4
lowlight vision, scent
saves: 1/2/3
Traits: Birthmark (serves as divine focus, +2 saves vs charm/compulsion -- cats never listen!), Magical Lineage (Cure Light Wounds -1 cost with metamagic)
Feat: Still Spell
Oracle's Curse: Deaf
Spells Known
0: Detect Magic, Resistance, Light, Purify Food and Drink (it's a cat! of course it wants fresh water!)
1: Prot Evil, Bless, Cure Light
I'm not sure about the mystery -- I haven't really read much of the Oracle class yet. Nature seems obvious, and one of the mysteries available to a Nature oracle is a Bonded Mount. I'm amused by the idea of a cat riding around on a pony -- or, for that matter, a small cat riding around on a big cat. It would also be exactly as smart as the Oracle. There's also thing that allows for some very limited telepathy. The Stone Oracle's "Mighty Pebble" ability would be pretty fun: "Oh, look at the kitty playing with a rock! BOOM!" Heavens is cool for cats who hate puddles.
It wouldn't be great -- it's not a good caster since everything has to be stilled, and definitely not a good fighter. Might make a fun cohort, though -- obviously it's not going to get in the way in fights or show up... well... anyone.
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I think I've found a way to make it work.....
I slightly tweaked the breakdown 3mChild sent me to allow the beast to start as small and work up to large while divvying up the abilities in a way I like more over 10 levels and I think I like it....
I'll have to type it up and let you see what you think....