First of all, I'd like to preface this: I've been a lurker here on these boards for a fair amount of time, and have been impressed with the amount of support offered from both players and Paizo employees. I first noticed Pathfinder about a year ago (just before the Core Rulebook came out), and after realizing that it was an extension of 3.xE, as opposed to a whole new edition,I was hooked. Heck, I've even warmed to Golarion; I've generally favored homebrew campaign settings, but have reconfigured my bias to include Golarion as a world-option for GMing, due to the fact that Golarion is, in my estimation, the most interesting/diverse published setting I've yet seen.
That said, I've also never used APs/modules in my life (I've always made my own adventures, you know, back when I actually had the time to do so!), and am interested in running an AP in Golarion. Out of curiosity, which AP would be the least complicated for me to run? Are the APs pretty user-friendly? Would something like Kingmaker possibly be overwhelming to a first-time Pathfinder GM/published adventure-user?
Note that I am an experienced RPG adjudicator (DMing since early 2E); I've just never ran modules or the like.
Thank you all for reading this random "newbie soapbox-request". I look forward to any insight you can offer.
~~Mike
First of all, I'd like to preface this: I've been a lurker here on these boards for a fair amount of time, and have been impressed with the amount of support offered from both players and Paizo employees. I first noticed Pathfinder about a year ago (just before the Core Rulebook came out), and after realizing that it was an extension of 3.xE, as opposed to a whole new edition,I was hooked. Heck, I've even warmed to Golarion; I've generally favored homebrew campaign settings, but have reconfigured my bias to include Golarion as a world-option for GMing, due to the fact that Golarion is, in my estimation, the most interesting/diverse published setting I've yet seen.
That said, I've also never used APs/modules in my life (I've always made my own adventures, you know, back when I actually had the time to do so!), and am interested in running an AP in Golarion. Out of curiosity, which AP would be the least complicated for me to run? Are the APs pretty user-friendly? Would something like Kingmaker possibly be overwhelming to a first-time Pathfinder GM/published adventure-user?
Note that I am an experienced RPG adjudicator (DMing since early 2E); I've just never ran modules or the like.
Thank you all for reading this random "newbie soapbox-request". I look forward to any insight you can offer.
~~Mike
Rhys,
Before my suggestion, a touch of background so you can put my comments in context. I played DnD since 1e, and heavily during the 3/3.5 years. I eagerly switched to 4e two years ago, and spent the last two years, as player and DM, trying to like the system. I finally gave up, for a number of reasons, but the one relevant to your post is story-related. I like modules and source material that's well-written, interesting, and create believable settings, stories, and characters. I'd read through the Alpha and Beta playtests of PF, and decided to pick up the book...and was floored with the improvements to the system and -- probably even more so -- the quality of the 'fluff.' I also picked up two adventure path books: The Stolen Land and The Bastard of Erebus.
I like the latter, and I love the former. I cannot wait to run Kingmaker. Consider this: you never run a published adventure exactly as written, right? You always put your own spin on things, in order to fit the preferences of your gaming group, right? Kingmaker facilitates that wonderfully by providing the story and the stats, and subsystems, too, for a massive, multi-level, sandbox game. One of the great challenges of that style of adventure/campaign is the need to have encounters, plots, and character ready for wherever the PC wander -- and have them, taken as a whole, make sense. I have since bought the second book in the Kingmaker path (River Runs Red), and they've done exactly that. The books have solid primary plots, with numerous encounters, locations, and people each, and a number of smaller side plots to mix things up as you want.
If you've been running games for a while I don't see any problem with launching Kingmaker. It's huge, flexible, and still have the detail at the encounter level to make it consistently interesting.
Ed, thank you for the heads-up on Kingmaker; I think I'll have to pick up "Stolen Lands" now! Yes, I've been heavily invested in curtailing my adventures to suit the players. A flexible sandbox campaign could be just what I need to launch Pathfinder.
As a response to your story, I too have been playing since 1E ('87 or so?), but didn't start DMing until 2E. I went to 3E when it was released (and its 3.5 update), and also really wanted to like 4E (too watered-down/kiddified for my "grognard" tastes, heh). Never having read much Dragon or Dungeon Magazines, I had never heard of Paizo or Pathfinder until I noticed it at my local gaming store. I was greatly appreciative of their efforts when I took a risk and dropped the $50 for the core rulebook and perused it!
Kingmaker seems like an AP with some wiggle-room for my own ideas and modifications, not to mention the whole super-cool kingdom-building element . . .
~~Mike
I'm about to start up a Kingmaker campaign myself, and I have to say I love what I have read so far. The Kingmaker section on these boards has a lot of great ideas for minor modifications, alternate random encounters, and some interesting minor twists. I highly recommend checking it out.
I'll do that, Caineach. Good luck on your campaign!
|
Council of Thieves is the other 'made for Pathfinder' game. It would also be a good ne to run. Kingmaker includes several dditional rules for running the city that might get in the way if you're not 100% sure on the rules. CoT is a lot more linear in terms of plot, though. and if you're into heavy role-playing, I can't recommend The Sixfold Trial enough.
|
My PCs are 5 sessions into Kingmaker, and I have had a great time running them through the first half or so of Stolen Lands. I have a big group (usually 7 players), and it has been really simple to take the basic information from the AP and scale it around to fit. The storyline is starting to take hold in the minds of the players, and they are getting up to all sorts of interesting trouble.
I ran a party through the first 4 chapters of Shackled City a couple of years ago, and was amazed at that time by the quality of the writing that went into the AP. Kingmaker is exponentially better.
Kingmaker includes several dditional rules for running the city that might get in the way if you're not 100% sure on the rules.
Are these additional rules in "Stolen Lands" or in later installments of the AP?
|
|
Kingmaker includes several dditional rules for running the city that might get in the way if you're not 100% sure on the rules.Are these additional rules in "Stolen Lands" or in later installments of the AP?
Later. They refer to managing the running of the kingdom, which is de facto a big part of Kingmaker (although there is an option for puttign it in the background). Just thought a call out was worth it.
Council of Thieves is the other 'made for Pathfinder' game. It would also be a good ne to run. CoT is a lot more linear in terms of plot, though. and if you're into heavy role-playing, I can't recommend The Sixfold Trial enough.
So CoT is RP-heavy . . . That's actually a tough decision: frontier-exploring sandboxy goodness, or RP-heavy Chelaxian intrigue! Heck, maybe I'll just pick up both . . .
|
|
Council of Thieves is the other 'made for Pathfinder' game. It would also be a good ne to run. CoT is a lot more linear in terms of plot, though. and if you're into heavy role-playing, I can't recommend The Sixfold Trial enough.So CoT is RP-heavy . . . That's actually a tough decision: frontier-exploring sandboxy goodness, or RP-heavy Chelaxian intrigue! Heck, maybe I'll just pick up both . . .
All Paizo APs have lots of options for RP, but Sixfold Trial involves the party being in a deadly play and then at a banquet afterwards. The opportunity for RP sessions there is immense.
All Paizo APs have lots of options for RP, but Sixfold Trial involves the party being in a deadly play and then at a banquet afterwards. The opportunity for RP sessions there is immense.Council of Thieves is the other 'made for Pathfinder' game. It would also be a good ne to run. CoT is a lot more linear in terms of plot, though. and if you're into heavy role-playing, I can't recommend The Sixfold Trial enough.So CoT is RP-heavy . . . That's actually a tough decision: frontier-exploring sandboxy goodness, or RP-heavy Chelaxian intrigue! Heck, maybe I'll just pick up both . . .
Indeed, there is even lines for the play itself (the six fold trial). So you can if you wish act out the whole play. It adds a whole new level to the roleplay because well, now you are acting like a character acting like another character, and fighting for your life in a sadistic cross between broadway and pitfighting.
Both are great adventures, and are flexible enough where an experienced dm can bend and reshape them to their party's needs. One thing i like about paizo is there is alot less box text then other modules i've seen by other companies. And alot more 'here is what is going on, describe it to your players'. This gives you understanding instead of quotes which means its alot easier to change things around to fit your needs.
As an additional note, several GMs are taking CoT as their "Pathfinder inaugural" campaign, then appending Kingmaker or Serpent's Skull onto the end of the Council of Thieves Adventure Path.
One thing i like about paizo is there is alot less box text then other modules i've seen by other companies. And alot more 'here is what is going on, describe it to your players'. This gives you understanding instead of quotes which means its alot easier to change things around to fit your needs.
Good to know. Boxed text is something I'd most likely ignore/customize anyway, depending on my interpretation of NPC's personalities. It'd be hard to fully exercise my considerable ad-lib skills if I stuck with canned dialogue!
|
+1 for Council of Thieves as your first Pathfinder AP over Kingmaker.
Kingmaker is unique out of all the Paizo APs in that its more sandbox oriented, which'll require a little extra TLC to make it not feel like it's a CRPG/MMO where you pick up quests from NPCs or signs with question marks suspended over their heads.
As I much as I like The Greenbelt, its no Westcrown! (I'm also a sucker for urban adventuring)
While I've started Rise of the Runelords, it's given 'rise' to a good example of customization. See Shipwreck Start in this section. I've also noticed that the boxtext on the buildings doesn't give too much away. I've always hated having to edit the boxtext. Runelords also has many opportunities for NPCs. I created an orphan named Nobbyfoot who has bad clubfoot. The poor kid was touched by the diety of birth defects. The Half-Orc took him in and has him recruiting more sanitation workers.