Changelings?


Conversions


Just curious if anyone else has or could update the Changeling race from the Eberron Campaign Setting.. I tend to make stuff I like overpowered when I homebrew or else I would give it a shot myself..

And the reason? - Changeling Wizard racial substitution levels(change your familiar as a standard action once per day and more importantly Dual Specialization in Illusion and Transmutation) from Races of Eberron.

Also Recaster from the same book seems fun and I was wondering if anyone thinks it is best left as is or can be updated.

Thanks guys!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Give them a +2 in any one ability score of their choice, and you're done.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Give them a +2 in any one ability score of their choice, and you're done.

I don't think I've ever talked with anyone who felt otherwise. It's so perfect, it's crazy.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Give them a +2 in any one ability score of their choice, and you're done.

That's what I was thinking, but I was curious if anyone thought that would be underpowered compared to the other core races.. like adding low light vision since they are 1/2 doppleganger and dopples have dark vision, or perhaps giving a limited version of mimicry..

Then again like I said I do tend to make things way overpowered

Dark Archive

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Give them a +2 in any one ability score of their choice, and you're done.

The only variations I would consider would be allowing a Changeling to take a feat that allowed them to change their +2 racial bonus at the beginning of the day with an hour's concentration, and possibly to throw in a feat that allows a Changeling to adopt size Small humanoid race forms as well (at least one Eberron book suggests that some Changelings can assume Halfling or Gnome forms, but doesn't really go into detail how they do that).

Sovereign Court

Set wrote:
At least one Eberron book suggests that some Changelings can assume Halfling or Gnome forms, but doesn't really go into detail how they do that.

The short ones should be able to emulate a gnome or a halfling if I remember right. Alter self lets you change to be within one size category of your normal size, thought the Changling ability had a percentage you had to keep within so a short Changeling should be able to go down to the smaller size.

And Changelings really aren't just half-doppelgangers... They have their own communities. >.>;

+2 to a stat of their choice and go seems like the best idea. Plenty of optional stuff for them in the Eberron books.


So I went as is with +2 to any state like humans. Now my problem is my DM saying racial subs for wizard 1&5 are way overpowered. I don't see it honestly, the level 1 dual specialization in illusion and transmutation - they are two of the weaker ability pools overall. And the level 5 trades your free feat for the ability to swap your familiar whenever u want.

Shadow Lodge

JimmyNids wrote:
So I went as is with +2 to any state like humans. Now my problem is my DM saying racial subs for wizard 1&5 are way overpowered. I don't see it honestly, the level 1 dual specialization in illusion and transmutation - they are two of the weaker ability pools overall. And the level 5 trades your free feat for the ability to swap your familiar whenever u want.

The last one I could see being abused. Need a bonus to Perception? Change Bopi the lizard into a Hawk. It's getting dark? Change Bopi the Hawk into an owl, and so...

Sovereign Court

Dragonborn3 wrote:
The last one I could see being abused. Need a bonus to Perception? Change Bopi the lizard into a Hawk. It's getting dark? Change Bopi the Hawk into an owl, and so...

That's actually what it's intended to do for the most part.

Really the Changeling substitution levels and that prestige class in Races of Eberron were just crazy good.


would you say crazy good or overpowered to the point of nerf/banning?

Grand Lodge

JimmyNids wrote:

Just curious if anyone else has or could update the Changeling race from the Eberron Campaign Setting.. I tend to make stuff I like overpowered when I homebrew or else I would give it a shot myself..

And the reason? - Changeling Wizard racial substitution levels(change your familiar as a standard action once per day and more importantly Dual Specialization in Illusion and Transmutation) from Races of Eberron.

Also Recaster from the same book seems fun and I was wondering if anyone thinks it is best left as is or can be updated.

Thanks guys!

I'm working on a couple of cocepts including a conversion of the Chameleon PrC and a doppelganger bloodline for changeling sorcerers.


I don't think it has to be at will.

It could be at dawn, midnight or the new moon.

Don't forget it could be a painful process with its own rules and ritual.

After a few levels I'd consider letting them have the +2 to any one stat if they were a medium or small character or give them the option of being Large but not getting the stat bonus.

Grand Lodge

Morgen wrote:


The short ones should be able to emulate a gnome or a halfling if I remember right. Alter self lets you change to be within one size category of your normal size

The Changeling ability is not intended to be on the power level of Alter Self. It's a slightly improved version of Disguise Self save that the change is physical, not illusory and the clothing is not affected. So I require that's the same size.

There are routes that give you want you want and I'll be statting them up but it's not a first level choice.

The Exchange

JimmyNids wrote:
So I went as is with +2 to any state like humans. Now my problem is my DM saying racial subs for wizard 1&5 are way overpowered. I don't see it honestly, the level 1 dual specialization in illusion and transmutation - they are two of the weaker ability pools overall. And the level 5 trades your free feat for the ability to swap your familiar whenever u want.

I'd be careful what you say about the Illusion school of magic. Put to clever use it is one of the most powerful schools. Transmutation is nothing to sneer at either, it's got a lot of really great spells.

Anyway, I could understand his argument if your dual specialization gets you access to all of the school powers from both schools. If that's the case, you're giving up relatively little for a significant boost in power.

I'd suggest a compromise. At first level, you choose to take either the Physical Enhancement school power, or Extended Illusions. You also choose between Blinding Ray and Telekinetic Fist.

At 8th level, you similarly choose between Invisibility Field and Change Shape.

The 5th level substitution is nice, but I don't think it's too overpowering. See if you can work out exactly what he thinks is overpowered and work with it- if your concept fits the substitution levels, you should be able to work something out. If you're just going for them because they give you a boost in power, he has every right to do what he can to keep the game well balanced.

Scarab Sages

JimmyNids wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Give them a +2 in any one ability score of their choice, and you're done.

in fact we did the same to the warforged and the shifter too

Scarab Sages

aku wrote:
JimmyNids wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Give them a +2 in any one ability score of their choice, and you're done.
in fact we did the same to the warforged and the shifter too

and pretty much left teh artificer alone updated the skillset, the errata and changed the crat points into "gold"


Morgen wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
The last one I could see being abused. Need a bonus to Perception? Change Bopi the lizard into a Hawk. It's getting dark? Change Bopi the Hawk into an owl, and so...

That's actually what it's intended to do for the most part.

Really the Changeling substitution levels and that prestige class in Races of Eberron were just crazy good.

The Kalashtar replacement levels for soulknife just about made the class playable, and for the other classes were far from overpowered.

Sovereign Court

JimmyNids wrote:
Would you say crazy good or overpowered to the point of nerf/banning?

Hmmmm.

Well if I was running an Eberron campaign with the Pathfinder RPG I don't think I'd bother to nerf them, but I'd make sure that my NPC's had access to them too.

If you are worried about it I'd suggest discussing with the player(s) who want to use them that you'll allow them on a trial basis for a game or two without any changes and see how they play out. If they end up being too powerful both you and your players should be able to see it and decide what to do from there.

Liberty's Edge

My Take:

+2 to a stat of your choice
Medium Size
Normal Speed
Shapechange: Alter Self at will.
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any.

Simple enough in my eyes.

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