If you are using a wand for a spell that is not in your class spellist, then you have to make use of the use magic device skill.
What about if your class has that spell? Do you need to make any check at all to use the wands. I read the core rulebook section on wands and on use magic device and i think i just came out more confused lol :P
Also why are wands limited to lv4 spells, what is the rationale behind that. The players asked, and i wasnt sure.
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If the requisite spell is on your spell-list, then no UMD check is needed.
As for why they are limited to level 4, I don't know that a specific reason was ever expressly stated. I would suspect that it's for game balance. Part of the way high level spells are balanced is through limited access. Having wands would allow access to high amount of high level spells in such a way that it removes the balancing aspect of not being able to cast many of them a day.
If you are using a wand for a spell that is not in your class spellist, then you have to make use of the use magic device skill.
What about if your class has that spell? Do you need to make any check at all to use the wands. I read the core rulebook section on wands and on use magic device and i think i just came out more confused lol :PAlso why are wands limited to lv4 spells, what is the rationale behind that. The players asked, and i wasnt sure.
If a spell in a wand is on your class spell list, no rolls are necessary. You just activate the wand as a standard action and the effect goes off as appropriate. Use Magic Device is meant for people to activate magic items they can't otherwise activate, such as noncasters using wands, though nothing stops a sorcerer from taking ranks in it and then using a wand of cure light wounds, for example.
Wands are limited in the level of effects for multiple (possible) reasons. One is an artifact of previous editions. Most wands in the old days couldn't throw high-level spells. Those that could became staves in 3.0. Also, a wand has 50 charges. Tell me, do you want the PCs to have things like wands of teleport at 9th level? What about limited wish and resurrection at 13th? Miracle and wish at 17th? Also, wands are depicted as useful tools if seen in fantasy literature, but they are not ever shown using truly powerful magic. That's reserved for staves, which can be recharged and hold multiple spells easily as well as let you use your own ability score modifiers for the spells therein.
Tell me, do you want the PCs to have things like wands of teleport at 9th level? What about limited wish and resurrection at 13th? Miracle and wish at 17th? Also, wands are depicted as useful tools if seen in fantasy literature, but they are not ever shown using truly powerful magic. That's reserved for staves, which can be recharged and hold multiple spells easily as well as let you use your own ability score modifiers for the spells therein.
If a PC could afford the cost of said wand, why not. For each charge of the wand the material components need to be paid for. so said wands would cost a entire countries fortune.
Spell Lv x Caster Level x Charge X material Cost.Spell lv costs for wizards go
0- 375
1- 750
2- 4500
3- 11250
4- 21000
Even if we just keep the ratio from 3->4 we get aprox
5- 39200,
6- 70560,
7- 127000,
8- 228614,
9- 411505
So teleport is lv 5 spell, lets assume the caster is at least level 9
So per charge of teleport:
39,200 x 5 x 9 = 1,764,000g per charge.
If they want to dump 1.7M gold per charge, go nuts :P
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stuff about wand costs
The cost to create a wand is:
CL * SL * (15g per charge + cost of material component) * # of charges (default 50).So, if they were legal, a 5th level wand, like Teleport, would cost 675 per charge, or 33,750 for a full wand. Teleport has no material costs, so it's relatively inexpensive.
Wish and Resurrection would be considerably more expensive due to their material costs.
Resurrection is a 7th level spell, needing to be cast by a 15th level caster, with a 10,000 gp component. That makes the cost per charge over a million gold, and over 52 million for a fresh wand.
Wish would be even worse:
17 * 9 * 25,015, or 3.8 mil per charge, nearly 200 mil for the whole wand.
stuff about wand costsThe cost to create a wand is:
CL * SL * (15g per charge + cost of material component) * # of charges (default 50).So, if they were legal, a 5th level wand, like Teleport, would cost 675 per charge, or 33,750 for a full wand. Teleport has no material costs, so it's relatively inexpensive.
Wish and Resurrection would be considerably more expensive due to their material costs.
Resurrection is a 7th level spell, needing to be cast by a 15th level caster, with a 10,000 gp component. That makes the cost per charge over a million gold, and over 52 million for a fresh wand.
Wish would be even worse:
17 * 9 * 25,015, or 3.8 mil per charge, nearly 200 mil for the whole wand.
yea, i read that wrong, was looking at the table as a cost per charge, its a cost per full. Had i thought about it, i would have realized a wand of CLW wasnt a 50,000g wand :P
Not sure how expensive 675 per charge is as we are only lv 3-4 in the group and hardly anyone has any gold on them at any give time (no healer = lots of pots and minor wonderus items to aid ac :P)
stuff about wand costsThe cost to create a wand is:
CL * SL * (15g per charge + cost of material component) * # of charges (default 50).So, if they were legal, a 5th level wand, like Teleport, would cost 675 per charge, or 33,750 for a full wand. Teleport has no material costs, so it's relatively inexpensive.
Wish and Resurrection would be considerably more expensive due to their material costs.
Resurrection is a 7th level spell, needing to be cast by a 15th level caster, with a 10,000 gp component. That makes the cost per charge over a million gold, and over 52 million for a fresh wand.
Wish would be even worse:
17 * 9 * 25,015, or 3.8 mil per charge, nearly 200 mil for the whole wand.
I am not sure where you're getting those numbers, but apparently you are multiplying the cost of the component times the SL and CL - this is not correct according to the formulas provided by the RAW.
Assuming a houserule that removes the level 4 restriction:
A wand of resurrection (7th level spell, 13th level caster) costs 7 x 13 x 375 gold to make, for a total of 34,125 gp to make it, 68,250 gp to buy it. In addition, the cost of 50 material components (50 x 10,000 = 500,000 gp) is added to either price, for a total cost of 534,125 gp to make or 568,250 to buy.
A wand of wish (9th level spell, 17th level caster) costs 9 x 17 x 375 gold to make, for a total of 57,375 gp to make it, 117,750 gp to buy it. In addition, the cost of 50 material components (50 x 25,000 = 1,250,000 gp) is added to either price, for a total cost of 1,307,375 gp to make or 1,364,750 to buy.
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Wrong stuff about wand costs
Correct stuff about wand costs
Yeah, trying to do math on no sleep = bad juju. Good catch on the multiplication of the mats by the SL & CL, my apologizes for any confusion.
As for the other numbers... I divided the wand base multiplier (750) by the base number of charges (50), to get a base multiplier per charge (15). I was trying to be all snazzy with my math, but was half asleep and accidentally fubar-ed the mat costs.
I wasn't worried about the cost of the wands, though as you can see the math can cause headaches. I was more worried about the ready access to the more powerful and problematic spells at a moment's notice. Especially in the hands of people with UMD. Mind you, the idea has certain merits, as it would be one way to put magical power into the hands of noncaster classes, but it's something to really think about carefully. To use another example, imagine a wand of heal and what it would do in your campaign.
One other good reason that wands higher than 4th are not allowed is that, the higher up you go, they just sort of don't make sense. It makes more sense to just scribe some scrolls of it.
The advantage in a wand is that you only have to cast the spell once per day to make it, where a scroll is once per casting. Thus more efficient timewise. Consider making a wand of cure light wounds in a day, vs. scribing 50 scrolls of it taking up to 50 days. As a wand approaches and surpasses 50k in cost, that efficiency is lost.
Wand of Teleport with 50 charges? That could be worthwhile and get used, depending on the campaign. But at 33750gp (and 34 days) you could scribe 10 scrolls for 11250gp (probably in 10 days) and probably have enough extras teleports for several levels. And pocket the extra 22k, or scribe 20 *other* 5th level spells so you have a good selection at any time.
Wand of Delayed Blast Fireball? At 68250gp, and at least 13th level, that's a huge expenditure for a fixed caster level item. Even if you used it 10 times per level, by 17th level you're just kinda shaking your head at doing only 76% of the damage if you had cast it yourself, plus the save being only 20, where you probably have at least 24. Admittedly, evocation is a poor example.
It's just rarely worthwhile to poor that many resources into a single spell. You have to actually *use* more than 30 of the charges to start saving money vs. scrolls (and you aren't saving time).
One other good reason that wands higher than 4th are not allowed is that, the higher up you go, they just sort of don't make sense. It makes more sense to just scribe some scrolls of it.
The advantage in a wand is that you only have to cast the spell once per day to make it, where a scroll is once per casting. Thus more efficient timewise. Consider making a wand of cure light wounds in a day, vs. scribing 50 scrolls of it taking up to 50 days. As a wand approaches and surpasses 50k in cost, that efficiency is lost.
Wand of Teleport with 50 charges? That could be worthwhile and get used, depending on the campaign. But at 33750gp (and 34 days) you could scribe 10 scrolls for 11250gp (probably in 10 days) and probably have enough extras teleports for several levels. And pocket the extra 22k, or scribe 20 *other* 5th level spells so you have a good selection at any time.
Wand of Delayed Blast Fireball? At 68250gp, and at least 13th level, that's a huge expenditure for a fixed caster level item. Even if you used it 10 times per level, by 17th level you're just kinda shaking your head at doing only 76% of the damage if you had cast it yourself, plus the save being only 20, where you probably have at least 24. Admittedly, evocation is a poor example.
It's just rarely worthwhile to poor that many resources into a single spell. You have to actually *use* more than 30 of the charges to start saving money vs. scrolls (and you aren't saving time).
well assuming you can sell the wand for half price you will actually have made 'profit' if you use half of the wand's charges (23 charges to be exact).
I think you do need to make a caster level check if your caster level is below that which would be needed to cast the spell.
Wands use the spell trigger activation method.
Spell Trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.