House Ruling Reincarnate

[HappyDaze]

I've tired of the min-max possibilities and some of the "gray rules" in Reincarnate, so I've decided to house rule it thusly:

When you use Reincarnate, you effectively rebuild your character to the new race. Class levels cannot be changed, but feats, skills, and languages can be altered to account for the new race - for example a former elf that no longer has proficiency in the longsword now that he's a dwarf can/must drop Weapon Focus (longsword) and replace it with another feat.

The character is effectively fully comfortable with the changes and his mind rationalizes away the differences. While the former-elf-now-dwarf may remember he once spoke elven but now speaks dwarven, this is simply accepted as part of the change.

The magic also grants the new life the benefit of youth, starting at whatever the race would have for the class taken at first level. However, this is a complete change - physical penalties are washed away but so too are mental bonuses since the 'new you' is young of spirit too.

[LazarX]

That's pretty much how I work it out. You've done a better job of writing it though.

[HappyDaze]

I also plan to allow a version of Reincarnate that removes the randomness and automatically returns the target to a fresh young adult body that is virtually identical to what the character previously had (although both younger and alive).

Note that I rule that the body provided by the 'standard' Reincarnate has random gender, height, weight, eye and hair color, etc. It really creates a whole new you.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

I don't allow my players to change skills or languages. I do allow them to choose new feats to replace the ones they no longer qualify for when they next level their character.

Since wish or miracle can restore a creature to its true form as 9th level spells, why not create a greater reincarnate as a 9th level druid spell? Or as an 7th level spell that reincarnates as the same race?

Lose/Gain - base race changes when reincarnated in my game in addition to size, vision, and speed changes
Dwarf - hardy, stability
Elf - elven immunities, keen senses
Gnome - gnome magic, illusion resistance, keen senses
Half-Elf - elf blood, elven immunities, keen senses
Half-Orc - intimidating, orc blood, orc ferocity
Halfling - keen senses, sure-footed
Human - skilled, but retain old skill points

[Tilnar]

First of all, let me say that your house rules are much cleaner, mechanically -- but (IMO) it really breaks with the whole "you keep your mind" thing which is supposed to be a core part of Reincarnation...

Personally, I find that still speaking your racial tongue and remembering your original weapon training (rather than that of your new race) fits the "same mind" thing way better than having the reincarnated person no longer able to speak to their parents in their native language (especially since it'll already be hard to prove you're still you in there).

So, I'm torn -- but my desire for consistency seems to trump my love of the cleaner mechanic.

[HappyDaze]

Tilnar wrote:

First of all, let me say that your house rules are much cleaner, mechanically -- but (IMO) it really breaks with the whole "you keep your mind" thing which is supposed to be a core part of Reincarnation...

Personally, I find that still speaking your racial tongue and remembering your original weapon training (rather than that of your new race) fits the "same mind" thing way better than having the reincarnated person no longer able to speak to their parents in their native language (especially since it'll already be hard to prove you're still you in there).

So, I'm torn -- but my desire for consistency seems to trump my love of the cleaner mechanic.

I don't really go for the 'same mind' bit - I go for it truly being another incarnation of your character. It's going to be 'mostly you' but different since it's "another life" rather than just a new skin. I like this better since it makes it more distinct from the various other ways of returning from the dead. I also only allow it be be reversed within 1 week - after that, the "new you" is the "true you" forevermore (or until you Reincarnate again).

[Tilnar]

HappyDaze wrote:

Tilnar wrote:

First of all, let me say that your house rules are much cleaner, mechanically -- but (IMO) it really breaks with the whole "you keep your mind" thing which is supposed to be a core part of Reincarnation...

Personally, I find that still speaking your racial tongue and remembering your original weapon training (rather than that of your new race) fits the "same mind" thing way better than having the reincarnated person no longer able to speak to their parents in their native language (especially since it'll already be hard to prove you're still you in there).

So, I'm torn -- but my desire for consistency seems to trump my love of the cleaner mechanic.

I don't really go for the 'same mind' bit - I go for it truly being another incarnation of your character. It's going to be 'mostly you' but different since it's "another life" rather than just a new skin. I like this better since it makes it more distinct from the various other ways of returning from the dead. I also only allow it be be reversed within 1 week - after that, the "new you" is the "true you" forevermore (or until you Reincarnate again).

*shrug* I guess my problem with that is that you come into being as a new young adult -- and if you weren't a dwarf through your childhood, then you you didn't spend decades training with the warhammer, learning to dodge the attacks of giants or how to kill orcs and goblins -- so where would those `racial` bonuses come from?

At the same time, as written, you have the "majority" of your memories, so you do remember training with the longsword and longbow -- and, even more telling -- it's the same soul, just in a new body... And, based on "standard" D&D/PF cosmology, the soul is pretty much the whole of the self. (After all, Resurrection and True Resurrection both (can) make new bodies, too.)

But, again, that's me -- as I said, I totally see where you're going with this, and I do like the simple elegance of it on one level -- and, with your view of the spell (despite the glitchy bits about childhoods and what not), it makes even more sense.

[HappyDaze]

I might suggest playing it that your memories conform to the new body. The once-elf-now-dwarf would not even recall an elven childhood. Instead, he recalls a childhood as a dwarf. This can arise from the spell forming the "new you" as an echo of an alternate world where the character was actually born as a dwarf. This variant goes beter with some versions of "chaos magic" than with druids, but it might be a fun angle.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

But by messing with the memories in such a way, why would the character have the same class? Say your character was raised as a Dwarf who has strong impressions of his father fighting troglodytes with alchemists fire and thunderstones. So he decided to become an alchemist. If you were reincarnated as a troglodyte, would you remember fighting dwarves instead? Would you have chosen to be an alchemist?

I understand you want to make the reincarnate process easier, but you make the story behind the character messy. Unless you prefer the combat aspects over story.

[HappyDaze]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

But by messing with the memories in such a way, why would the character have the same class?

Because that's the point of commonality between the "you" of one world and the "other you" of the world that you bridge across with the spell. This is for the 'chaos variant' I described.