| Ironicdisaster |
All right, good people, I find myself in a pickle. I am running a game set in a world of my creation, using the 3.x rules, and lo and behold, the magic system (Vancian?) doesn't fit the world! I've been kicking around the idea of a system much like Dark Heresy, with the psipotency and such, but I'd really like a system that meshes better with the 3e rules, as I plan on getting the Pathfinder books as soon as possible. Can anyone help me out with a home brew(or someone else-brew)? Here's some background on the magic system and how it works in the stories I've written.
1. Magic is free form, magic energy exists in the world for people to use whenever they need to. Every human has the potential to use magic, but not all do, because:
2. Magic can only be cast with the help of a demon. It's called demonic magic because arcane magic was taken away from people because, as we all know, people are irresponsible.
3. Demons WILL try to take over a wizard's body. The first time is the worst. When a person touches a wizard staff containing a demon, a battle of wills ensues. There's no try again. Either the person becomes a wizard, or they become irreversibly mad and lose all capacity for rational thought. It's pretty intense.
4. Divine magic functions a lot like it does in 3e, except that it's freeform, too.
5. I really have a problem with the spells per day, I think. When I think powerful wizard, I think flinging bolts of power without regard, turning cities to ash, and such. Powerful stuff that can't be accomplished in the 36 total spells that a wizard gets every day.
6. Psionics exist and function the same, mechanically, though the capabilities are different. I basically want to make a magic system that doesn't give spells per day, meaning you cast when you need to, but is still balanced. I still want them to have those ''Oh, Crap!'' Moments, without the possibility to recover. Not to mention, no one EVER prepares the spell they're going to need the most, and sometimes they don't even take it. Any suggestions?
| Ironicdisaster |
What do you mean by freeform.
Dragon age like magic setting much?
Also, I think you have your answers already. You stated them yourself.
Not exactly, but similar, I suppose. I need help with the mechanics, such as how to determine if they've even cast a spell, or how to know if they're too tired, how to determine saves, how to determine affects, that sort of thing. If they're just caating spells for free, not making any checks, or anything, the only thing keeping my players from casting "Destroy All Obstacles" is me. I want them to be free to create spells on the fly, rather than be forced to rely on spells other wizards have written. I think, with the rather steep price to pay for being able to even cast the spells, they should have a little more leeway.
| Kelso |
This sounds like a very ambitious and difficult plan. When I imagine developing a system like what you describe (which, at least, sounds really cool) for my players, I picture them flinging Fireballs and Disintegrations willy-nilly and wonder why anyone would ever play a non-caster. You know your group better than I do, though.
Have you looked at Pact Magic from the 3.5 Tome of Magic. You might be able to draw inspiration from that, though I doubt it's exactly what you are looking for. Also the Warlock from Complete Arcane has a similar thesis behind it. All of their powers come from a usually fiendish source and they are unlimited.
The only other game I've seen where characters could use magic almost unlimitedly to do almost anything was in the Storyteller game Mage: the Ascension, but that's not even D20 and would be very hard to adapt, I think.
Really, the best suggestion I can make is to borrow heavily from the Warlock class, with maybe an expanded Invocation pool and then try and incorporate the Call of Cthulhu D20 insanity system.
Hope that is helpful.
| SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Yeah, I would go with binder and/or warlock for inspiration.
Are there ANY limits in your mind? Like, can a 1st level dude use Meteor Swarm at will? Does everyone know every spell? Is it level based at all?
What do PCs have to do to get a demon to help them use magic?
In binder pact magic, they make a check 1/day, and if they succeed, they can use the magic at will. If they fail, they take on a behavioral aspect of the vestige, such as alwasy crying, unable to concentrate on a task for more than 1 round, always giving alms to dwarves, etc. etc.
Did you want the check to occur every time a spell is cast? Maybe look into Truenamer from the Tome of Magic for inspiration on DCs, etc.
| Ironicdisaster |
I wanted something to check every round. No, they couldn't cast meteor swarm first level. I'm not THAT permissive. At first level, burning hands is a pretty powerful spell. I mean, lucky rolls could kill a couple of fighters easy. They'll create some spells on the fly, like levitate or something easy. Complex spells like cloudkill need more energy, and both Wish spells function exactly like they do in real life. PCs dominate the demon within a "Soul Sphere", which is an unbreakable glass sphere that can contain magic. It's usually on a staff, but could be an amulet, ring, etc. For a non wizard to touch the staff, they must make a will save, dc something like 20 or 25. The problem I am coming across is exactly how to make everyone balanced. To KEEP the fireballs coming, but not every round. Maybe a spell points per round? And every round you gain your int or wis modifier back?
| SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Maybe a restoration period of 1d12 rounds? It reduces to 1d10 at 5th, 1d8 at 10th, 1d6 at 15th, and 1d4 at 20th.
How many spells would they know? Just like wizards? 3 + Int bonus at 1st level and 2 every additional level? More? Less?
Would you require a Will save to cast every spell? Would the DC stay the same, or increase depending on how many times a specific spell was cast?
| Ironicdisaster |
Maybe a restoration period of 1d12 rounds? It reduces to 1d10 at 5th, 1d8 at 10th, 1d6 at 15th, and 1d4 at 20th.
How many spells would they know? Just like wizards? 3 + Int bonus at 1st level and 2 every additional level? More? Less?
Would you require a Will save to cast every spell? Would the DC stay the same, or increase depending on how many times a specific spell was cast?
The restoration period is a good idea, but how taxing IS a magic missile? Surely even a first level wizard could cast it and be ready to cast the next turn, right? If I suggest things, please feel free to pick them apart. But maybe there needs to be a points per round. That way, everyone can cast and cast, but too much too soon puts you out of the fight. Maybe THAT's where the restoration period comes in? 1d12 rounds before you start gaining points back? Tell me what you think?
| Kelso |
I followed Eyolf the Wild Commoner's link and it led to an essentially blank page.
I feel like I read something like what you describe in Unearthed Arcana. A system where you need recharge time to cast. Is that what the link was supposed to lead to?
So: 1st level Wizard could cast 0-level spells unlimitedly, but a 1st level spell would knock out spell casting for several rounds. Maybe you could even let the 1st level wizard cast a 2nd level spell, but it knocks out spell casting for an hour or a day or something.
As the Wizard levels, recharge times improve for whatever spells they can cast. Non-casters would just have much more limited abilities.
| Ironicdisaster |
I followed Eyolf the Wild Commoner's link and it led to an essentially blank page.
I feel like I read something like what you describe in Unearthed Arcana. A system where you need recharge time to cast. Is that what the link was supposed to lead to?
So: 1st level Wizard could cast 0-level spells unlimitedly, but a 1st level spell would knock out spell casting for several rounds. Maybe you could even let the 1st level wizard cast a 2nd level spell, but it knocks out spell casting for an hour or a day or something.
As the Wizard levels, recharge times improve for whatever spells they can cast. Non-casters would just have much more limited abilities.
Well, I also don't want anything to knock them out with ONE spell. I mean, certain high level spells would, I understand, but it would be pretty potent to exhaust all of the energy of the person casting it. Magic missile doesn't strike me as that kind of party
| Phasics |
If you want to make magic freeform you need to cap what can be done each round.
as a base no effect can do more than level x d6 , without feats/abilites etc.
( wether thats a creative use of loose boulders above the battlefield or raw magic fire bolts, just cap the max damage potential)
can only manipulate level x X lb of mass
can only control level x X HD of creature (stuff like sleep charm holds etc)
then have feats that alow them to increase the max per round values you decide on.
| Fred Ohm |
What about checks for casting and a fumbles table ?
No limits on spells or spell points per day, but something like a caster level check DC 10 + spell level + number of spell levels used during the last rounds, up to a number equal to the spell level. It's dangerous to cast three spells in a row, if they're appropriate to the caster's level.
In case of failure, roll d20 or use the difference between the DC and the roll :
1 4 spell hit a random target
5 6 spell hit the caster
7 14 nothing happens
15 18 magic burst (1d10 per level of the spell in a 60-foot range, reflex half ?)
19+ magical disaster (a portal to a random plane appears ?)
| Firest |
You might want to look at the various incarnations of the Deadlands magic system.
Hucksters (Mages) draw their spells from duels with demons. These duels take the form of games of chance.
When a Huckster wants to cast a spell he draws five cards from a deck to try and make a poker hand. The more difficult a spell is the better hand needed to have it go off, from ace high all the way up to royal flush.
So if a Huckster wanted to cast a magic missile he would draw five cards needing a pair to have it go off. If he gets the pair the spell goes off and does basic damage, but if he gets a better hand (three of a kind or a straight) the spell does more damage depending on how good of a hand it is.
If he didn't get a pair right off he could draw more cards depending on how high his level is (second level one additional card, third two additional cards), but the more cards he draws the greater risk he will draw a wild card (joker), which can cause the spell to run wild in a good or bad way.
If he goes bust, not getting the minimum hand needed at all, the demon wins and punishes the Huckster. Causing the spell to misfire doing damage to the Huckster, or to an ally, or in the worst case, possessing the Huckster for a time.
That's basically how I remember it going, though it's been quite some time since I played Deadlands.
| Ironicdisaster |
If you want to make magic freeform you need to cap what can be done each round.
as a base no effect can do more than level x d6 , without feats/abilites etc.
( wether thats a creative use of loose boulders above the battlefield or raw magic fire bolts, just cap the max damage potential)can only manipulate level x X lb of mass
can only control level x X HD of creature (stuff like sleep charm holds etc)
then have feats that alow them to increase the max per round values you decide on.
Yes! Stuff like that, keep it coming, please!
Tambryn
|
I personally recommend that you take a serious look at Monte Cook's World of Darkness. It has the best freeform d20 magic system that I have ever seen. Essentially it is the previously mention magic system from Mage after Monte converted it to d20. A lot of the leg work might already be done for you if you like it and all you would have to do is modify it a little for your desired flavor and power level.
Tam
| Ironicdisaster |
I personally recommend that you take a serious look at Monte Cook's World of Darkness. It has the best freeform d20 magic system that I have ever seen. Essentially it is the previously mention magic system from Mage after Monte converted it to d20. A lot of the leg work might already be done for you if you like it and all you would have to do is modify it a little for your desired flavor and power level.
Tam
Got a link? The only World of Darkness I know of is the d10 system
| Eyolf The Wild Commoner |
Why did the link not work..
Go to google and type this in, should be the first result.
mana-based spellcasting 3.5
Also a re-link, hopefully it works.
http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Mana-Based_Spellcasting_%283.5e_Variant_Rule %29| Ironicdisaster |
Why did the link not work..
Go to google and type this in, should be the first result.
Quote:mana-based spellcasting 3.5Also a re-link, hopefully it works.
http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Mana-Based_Spellcasting_%283.5e_Variant_Rule %29
Oh my god. That is IT. That is exactly the system I need. You are awesome! Thank you! If I combine that with the freeform system above, that makes everything work together perfectly!
Tambryn
|
Got a link? The only World of Darkness I know of is the d10 system
Maybe the mana system will work for you. But it seems that you missed my link above. If you want to see the MC's WOD magic system, a good and short overview is right HERE.
Apparently you can't put [bigger] tags around something twice to make it doubly big. Hope this helps.
Tam
| Ironicdisaster |
Ironicdisaster wrote:Got a link? The only World of Darkness I know of is the d10 systemMaybe the mana system will work for you. But it seems that you missed my link above. If you want to see the MC's WOD magic system, a good and short overview is right HERE.
Apparently you can't put [bigger] tags around something twice to make it doubly big. Hope this helps.
Tam
Crap, sorry. I caught that earlier, but when I went to reply, my internet went out. I'm doing this on a blackberry.