Leadership feat, who is a Wizard's best friend


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I am a wizard getting close to level 7 and I have been eyeing the leadership feat
Our group has. 6 players and I have been focusing on control and buffing
I have school spec in conjour and have augment summoning and the pack of dogs have done a great job of locking down multiple foes and doing serious damage

group info
half Orc ranger
halfling barhalf elf rogue
human monk
dwarf cleric

I was thinking another wizard would help with take some of the buffing duties and could lay down some more and different control options or lay down some more summoned monsters. Plus in the down time he can be busy crafting stuff

or a cleric for even more healing
or a paladin to be my personal body guard
who can heal too, although being. 2 levels below the party woul make him a backrow player

all sound good is one better than the rest


Bard.

He can take over the buffing duties (as the best buffer in the game), he can take a hit, if needed he can heal, give him a long spear and spend his feats into two handed fighting and he can deliver a solid blow or three himself, with his knowledge skills backing up yours you should be able to cover everything on that aspect, and he's a back up skill monkey to boot.


Ugh. Boards are hungry today.

Seconded on bard.

If you want a meatshield go and Dominate an Ogre Barbarian or something.

Bards can spread the good word of your works, heal you, take over buffing and crowd controlling, and split your knowledge skills with you.


Presuming the pc halfling bard is already supplementing the dwarf cleric's healing, plus the fact you're still seeking more healing, makes me wonder if you don't need a 'meat shield' role more than healing --with the ranger, cleric, & monk roles historically being secondary fighters (though a cleric outfitted for the role works decently too).

Of your two options, the paladin gets my vote -- outfitted for defense = he could hold up pretty well even at a couple levels lower. (also the cleric option may tread into what your friend thinks is cool/unique about his cleric)

My best recommendation is to examine this from a couple perspectives before choosing. First, do I want to improve my strong suit of what my pc does, or do I want a complementary piece to minimze my weakness? Second, what is the party missing/need? Third, be specific what his role will be(sounds like you're getting there on this point).

My own experience: Have a 13th lvl fighter (from 3.5 about to be converted to PF) who has a fighter cohort & later added a ranger as well. The ftr was added as a more mobile guy with a reach weapon to help plug a secondary flank to help protect our rather large party or to help me hold the main point of attack. He has proved helpful in keeping the spell casters covered (plus at mid levels helped 'keep me up with the Joneses' on dmg output ;)

Later on, our party was still without a ranger so she was added for both roleplay value to flavor his personal story and also to compliment/improve a lower perception score to scope out enemies on the trail and strengthen the night watches.

...long post...guess I'm in a rambling mood tonight...or the ale at this tavern has loosened my tongue... =)


Uhm, to offer another view, why not bring a Magical Beast or Dragon to the party? Assuming the setting allows for such things, and the townsfolk aren't immediately going to fall upon said cohort, the Wizard taking up with a Wyrmling or Very Yound Dragon as an 'apprentice' could be an interesting concept, as the Wizard tries to explain the 'theory of magic' to a being that can, in a few decades at least, be able to produce spells the way mortals breath.

Another variation on this is Wizard, depending upon his or her alignment and the general alignment of the Party itself, could end up with a disguised Outsider tagging along as a 'cohort', who is subtly sizing the party up, either to bring into the fold or to betray further down the line. The Wizard could even be in on the deal!

Working on the assumption of the CR = PC Level method from the Core Rulebook, using the CR as the effective level of the 'Cohort' and assuming the Wizard has a Leadership score of 8!

Hound Archons
Aasimar Bard or Cleric
Bralani Azata
Barghest
Lilend Azata (if your Leadership Score is high enough!)
Centaur Fighter (assuming you can befriend an exiled one)
A Cyclops seeking to learn more about his or her people's ancient history.
SUCCUBUS as a 'concubine' (heh)
Bearded Devil as a favour for an Evil Deed
Doppelganger Rogue or Bard (fun times assuming you don't realise the Cohort IS a Doppelganger!)
Very Young Black Dragon}
Wyrmling Blue Dragon}
Very Young Green Dragon}
Wyrmling Red Dragon}
Young White Dragon}
Very Young Brass Dragon
Wyrmling Bronze Dragon
Very Young Copper Dragon (mind the fart-jokes)
Wyrmling Silver Dragon
Ettercap (for the creepiest 'yes master' servant you could get!)
Ettin (for the inevitable Wiz: "I told you to go guard the camp!" Right Head:"No, you told Gurth, I'm Burth." Left Head: "Sorry boss!" Wiz: "YOU ARE BOTH THE SAME PERSON!" Both Heads Together: "No, I'm Burth, he's Gurth/ I'm Gurth he's Burth!" Right Head:"He signed up, I was asleep at the time, I didn't want to come!" Wiz: "FFFFFFFFFFFFF!")
Gargoyle Rogue (works best in a city environment)
Djinni Genie (don't ask for wishes!)
Janni Genie (makes for an interesting 'not quite Human' cohort)
Gnoll Druid (So, you turn into a slightly hairier Hyena?)
GOBLIN! (Psychotic little lunatic you've 'conned' into doing your bidding after scribing an Arcane Mark on his forehead and claiming it will turn him into a Gnome if he doesn't remain clean and stop swearing at your cat familiar.)
Griffon (always a solid choice .... the other characters don't use horses, do they? Eep.)
Half-Dragon-something (go berserk. make it something you wizard whipped up while bored and now has this creepy thing following after him going "Dada!")
Harpy (heh)
Kobold (exiled from tribe for befriending non-Kobolds or perhaps being born with Metalic colouration, latches onto the Wizard for support)
Kyton (Whip me, beat me, chain me up and eat me!)
Lamia (uhm .... yeah.)
Lizardfolk (Tonto to your Lone Ranger?)
Were-whatever (Always fun when you are caught chaining you nubile cohort up to the wall, and saying "Oh, don't mind her, it's just that time of the month!" *bursts into flame from the bad karma*)
Manticore
Medusa (admittedly you'd need to be 9th level for her, but it would make a great cohort for a Wizard as a 'mis-understood' Monster stereotype)
Mephits!
Minotaur (you saved its life ... and feed it on a regular basis)
Ogre (dueling banjos in three ... two ... one ... and cue!)
Pixie! (Annoy the HELL out of everyone with a demented 'camp' pixie runs wild through the Party and offers to the make the Half-Orc 'the most darling ensemble for this year's winter festival, some off those buns!'. Be forewarned, you will want easy access to the exit if you pull this on your other players and they're not the most open-minded people as they make good on their threats to 'stuff that pixie where the sun don't shine!')
Satyr (assuming the Fey wants to explore the 'Mortal' world and is trusting the Wizard's magic to keep him safe as he explores)
Skeletal Champion (Travelling with the Wizard until they can figure out a method to change it back into a normal mortal)
Tengu (kelptomaniac sword-fetish bodyguard. What more can a Wizard ask for?)
Tiefling (make it like Neeshka for epic win.)
Troll (see Minotaur)
Worg/Winter Wolf (one of the rare neutral aligned members of these races)
Wyvern! (see Griffon)

And that's just the Cr 1/2-6 from the 1st Beastiary! Get together with the DM and go nuts!


My game master is always asking the following questions when you take a leadership:

1 Are you competent enought to play a second character?
2 Why is your follower following you. Explain his Job, duty and reason. An chaotic nutral wizard is not likeley to have a paladin, but a cleric of the magic good is very likable. It has to fit in the story and you character concept and not taken only for powerplay.


My character has a back story that resembles the speed racer story a bit
my father is a wizard and so are his 3 sons
my older brother ( think Racer X) and my father ( think Pops )got into an argrument over a secret my brother found out regarding something about our familes origin and magic and he left in a huff, suposedly to find out more and set things right
my father is of corse very upset and secretive about all of that

my character ( think Speed racer) left with fathers permission ( reluctantly) to go out and find my brother and protect him from the people who want to keep the secret things secret

I was planning on having my cohort be my older brother
in that case he would be a wizard of the same school as I am

if I get enough charisma and leader points to have a second cohort I was gpin to have it be my younger brother ( think Spritle) with a familiar monkey ( chim chim)

if I pick a bard or cleric I would be stepping on the other players toes
or impling they are not doing their job very well

I am afraid any -2 level front liner would not last long and getting cohorts kill seriously hurt my future recruiting power

the wizard I am planning would have the feats for two Wand weilder and then get him some lvl 1 and later some lvl 2 wands so he can very quick apply the buffs and with 2 cure light wound wands he can dish out some healing to help out the cleric
if we both cast eagle slendor on the bard then she can charm the pants of anyone , etc etc
if I am careful not to overlap our spell lists he will increase my spell flexibility while also increasing the spell out put

I have a familiar too and upgrading him at lvl 9 to a wand weilding water mephitis will further increase the magic out put

can the cohort also have a familiar and can it also be upgraded?
I figure it would be a bit over powered if the cohort could take leadership when he gets to level 7.


Glad to see you've zeroed in on you choice & shared the result. Hope the discussion helped. Like the detailed backstory too.

Though a caution to be prepared as 'safe' is a relative term. Your concern is valid: "I am afraid any -2 level front liner would not last long"...but, it won't really matter what role they have. Off the top of my head have seen 4 cohorts buy the farm at our table -- and it was always just one massive swift blow.

Halfling scribe(bard) recording his leaders exploits for publication in cheesy adventure/romance novels = chomped by a giant gator, leaving but one foot behind. His leader later on idly tossed said foot onto a temple alter and said, "Here, fix this."

Battle cleric... she was caught in a lighting blast or a fireball that was aimed at another targeted PC in the party that had just stepped near her(inadvertantly putting her in harms way) = toasty corpse. Other PC who was her leader was not pleased, but we managed to rez her at the temple in the next town.

Both of mine fell to massive blows from a very elite orc unit that ambushed us in the woods = there was no place 'behind the line'. It was all kill or be killed. Luckily we'd all previously each earned a favor from Kelemvor and they were healed to life near instantly.

Good luck & enjoy!


If you're worried about the other players having their toes trod on, nothing is stopping you from making you PC's Brother a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard. Assuming the origin of the PC's family and magical prowess stems from some evil source, the Brother could have renounced his Wizardly ways and instead called upon an Angel, Azata or Archon to empower him, and thus he is instead a Celestial Sorcerer, having abandoned whatever path your family's origin would have forced him down. Which now means YOU could be the next person who has to fulfil the Pact or whatever the nature of the original conflict is/was.

Alternatively, make him a Paladin which adds some healing to the party as well as some more front-line melee combatants (surely your Wizard can spare a charge or three from a Wand of Bear/Etc to buff his own brother!) which is always needed in any party, and the interplay between your Brother and your PC will make for some great Role Play. Just don't cut the other players out of the situation...

A more off-the-wall solution would be to have your Brother become a Rogue with Minor Magic and Major Magic as Rogue Talents. He's refuted his heritage and tried to become something else, but the heritage is still there...

If he must be a Wizard the same as you, remember two Wizards can share spellbooks, so remember to make one of his 'prohibited' schools different from yours so the party gets some additional mileage out of the equation. 1/2 the spells would be the same, given you've made a point of a family origin and the apparent family 'trade' is Wizard, but you have lived different lives and experienced different things. What your brother will have learned to cast will differ from what your PC has learned.

Dark Archive

Sounds like your wizard is battlefield control. Is "halfling bar" barbarian or bard? Hopefully bard :) in which case that is covered.

I'd personally go for Witch if the book is allowed. They are amazing support; tons of debuffs and buffed and even healing, no need to memorize, great effects, and between your two guys the battlefield will be a nightmare for your opponents.


I like the idea of the brother turning his back on wizard and becoming a witch
I do not know about the witch class . I will ask my GM and see if he allows it
I will also ask the bard if it Is ok with her to " share the stage" with another

or a paladin with 1 level of wizard just for the story connection

Sovereign Court

Another school of thought; you already are in a 6 person party. Adding a NPC to your regular crew makes that 7+ sets of actions to wait for in combat per combat round (including GM). What does your DM say when you suggest taking Leadership?

Silver Crusade

I'm a stickler to making folks seek their cohorts through characters they've already met rather than get to go "shopping" at the local NPC-Mart for the perfect Ranger, Witch, etc.

I like the idea of "keeping it in the family" and two wizards would be a welcome part of the group. As noted by Alexander, just be aware with your summoned creatures, cohort, familiar, and anything they bring to combat, you're going to be dominating a lot of time at the table. You might want to address this somehow.


I'd hope the other characters would take leadership and lean on them. Too few feats for the wizard.

Whats your Charisma like?

Mongoose quint. Wizard has a good bit on taking apprentices. Worth a read.

Sigurd


My charisma is 12
and our group has a base and I have earned several " fame points" so far in our campaign
a negative to my leadership points is that I have a familiar

what is a moongoose squint?


Mongoose, publisher of "Quintessential Wizard".


Mongoose Quintessential Wizard.

There's a portion of the book at the OGL WIKI:

http://grandwiki.wikidot.com/qwiz

Its 3.x not pathfinder but I like the rules for apprentices. They're not meat shields but they do help you learn more spells and make game sense, at least to me.

I'd still consider whether there's not a metamagic feat that you should take instead of leadership. If you get along well with the rest of the party they can send someone to protect you while you concentrate on casting.

Of course thats just my humble opinion.

Sigurd

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