Optimizing a Human Archer Build


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Sovereign Court

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As as kind of reference point for the Halfling mounted archer build I was working on I worked out an optimized human Archer build, mainly intended for Pathfinder Society, but really applicable to any campaign.

I've got most of it worked out but there are two feat slots still open, plus if I'm off on anything then I'm all ears...

STATS (Human)

Str 20, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 7

Dex gets increased at 4th, 8th and 12th

TRAITS

Indomitable Faith (+1 Will)
Reactionary (+2 Initiative)

FEATS

Fighter 1: Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Fighter 2: Rapid Shot
Fighter 3: Deadly Aim
Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization
Fighter 5: (General ?)
Fighter 6: Many Shot
Fighter 7: Vital Strike
Fighter 8: Improved Critical
Fighter 9: Critical Focus
Fighter 10: (Combat ?)
Fighter 11: Sickening Critical
Fighter 12: Improved Precise Shot

At 5th level a general feat can be taken. One option is Iron Will to help plug the Will Save liability some more. Another option would be Nimble Moves so that you can 5-foot step even in difficult terrain. 5-foot steps for an archer are important as they want to be full attacking as much as possible.

The 10th level feat is a combat feat and is in an awkward position. It's just out of reach of a lot of the higher tier feats, and so it just comes down to what lower level feats might get picked up. Some options might be Power Attack, Agile Maneuvers, or Quick Draw. Quick Draw has the most synergy with the archery, while others are more of just backup options for when archery isn't really possible.

TO HIT

Fighter 1: (BAB +1, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +3) = +6 to hit
Fighter 2: (BAB +2, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +3, RS -2) = +5/+5 to hit
Fighter 3: (BAB +3, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +3, RS -2, DA -1) = +5/+5 to hit
Fighter 4: (BAB +4, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -2) = +6/+6 to hit
Fighter 5: (BAB +5, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -2, WT +1) = +9/+9 to hit
Fighter 6: (BAB +6/+1, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -2, WT +1) = +10[x2]/+10/+5 to hit
Fighter 7: (BAB +7/+2, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -2, WT +1) = +11[x2]/+11/+6 to hit
Fighter 8: (BAB +8/+3, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -3, WT +1) = +11[x2]/+11/+6 to hit
Fighter 9: (BAB +9/+4, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -3, WT +2) = +13[x2]/+13/+8 to hit
Fighter 10: (BAB +10/+5, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -3, WT +2) = +14[x2]/+14/+9 to hit
Fighter 11: (BAB +11/+6/+1, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +4, RS -2, DA -3, WT +2) = +15[x2]/+15/+10/+5 to hit
Fighter 12: (BAB +12/+7/+2, WF +1, PB +1, Dex +5, RS -2, DA -4, WT +2) = +17[x2]/+17/+12/+7 to hit

DAMAGE

Fighter 1: (Str +5, PB +1) = +6 damage
Fighter 2: (Str +5, PB +1) = +6 damage
Fighter 3: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +2) = +8 damage
Fighter 4: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +4, WS +2) = +12 damage
Fighter 5: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +4, WS +2, WT +1) = +13 damage
Fighter 6: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +4, WS +2, WT +1) = +13 damage
Fighter 7: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +4, WS +2, WT +1) = +13 damage
Fighter 8: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +6, WS +2, WT +1) = +15 damage
Fighter 9: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +6, WS +2, WT +2) = +16 damage
Fighter 10: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +6, WS +2, WT +2) = +16 damage
Fighter 11: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +6, WS +2, WT +2) = +16 damage
Fighter 12: (Str +5, PB +1, DA +8, WS +2, WT +2) = +18 damage

I'm watching a similar build to this in Pathfinder Society right now. A friend is playing something along these lines and he's cleaning up the place with it. He's around 6th level now and just mowing down the opposition. If a couple of people all took this build at the same time I suspect the modules would be a joke.

It should be noted that equipment isn't factored into any of this, beyond gaining as quickly as possible a +5 strength composite longbow.

Still, for the sake of the record, how else can this build get more squeezed out of it? What else can be done with it?
Edit/Delete Message

Dark Archive

You might want to take Greater Weapon Focus at 10th level.


Looks great!

but what wiht your mental stats!

You have a awful personalaty, when you try to say something nice you insult someone.
You are to stupid to realize that you even insulting the dragon. And above all! With that wisdom you always fail to see an ambush!

But if you play only combat and no roleplay at all then this is ultimate powerplay.

Sovereign Court

Optimised for combat, useless everywhere else. Congratulations.


Count Duck wrote:

Looks great!

but what wiht your mental stats!

You have a awful personalaty, when you try to say something nice you insult someone.
You are to stupid to realize that you even insulting the dragon. And above all! With that wisdom you always fail to see an ambush!

But if you play only combat and no roleplay at all then this is ultimate powerplay.

Or just be like the guy a played with at my last PFS game. 7 Wis and 7 Int, but still managed to give battle orders and suggestions as if he were the smartest PC around.


Kratzee wrote:
Count Duck wrote:

Looks great!

but what wiht your mental stats!

You have a awful personalaty, when you try to say something nice you insult someone.
You are to stupid to realize that you even insulting the dragon. And above all! With that wisdom you always fail to see an ambush!

But if you play only combat and no roleplay at all then this is ultimate powerplay.

Or just be like the guy a played with at my last PFS game. 7 Wis and 7 Int, but still managed to give battle orders and suggestions as if he were the smartest PC around.

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that there should be a minimum for stats in the game?

No problem if its roleplayed but my money is on it won't be.

Congratulations for turning a roleplaying game into WoW...

Grand Lodge

Would you still be so concerned if the archer was a slighter, nimbler, lovable chap (Str 12, Dex 20, Con 7, Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 17) with ranks in perhaps diplomacy? It might fit more into your thoughts of what a character should be, but not everyone believes the same. I think that a player should have as many options to customize their character as possible, even highly split ability scores. IMHO, it is up to the GM to not only create an enjoyable, even memorable campaign, but to test the strengths and weaknessess of the characters. Obviously, the archer would be at a great disadvantage in social environments as well as resisting enchantment/charms. Use that (but don't abuse it) to show the player that perhaps a more rounded character (ala, less min/max) would be a better idea. That is easily accomplished in a home-game. Perhaps more of a challenge in a society game, but doable.

Shadow Lodge

You are going to spend the game with a massively crippled will save? The only effort to short up what is a glaring weakness is the trait. With a hole that huge this guy is likely to kill as many party members as enemies. Not someone I want in my group.

Maybe I'm biased about the subject because the 16th level fighter in our party has killed 2 characters in our party and nearly killed another over the past 2 session. He's also spent a lot of time on the bench due to hold person, imprisonment, confusion, dominate... The casters wind up wasting rounds fixing him only to have him fail another save 2 rounds later.

I would strongly urge you to make an effort to shore this up. Maybe Iron Will as that 5th level feat and Improved Iron Will at 9th moving crtical focus to 10th.


Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
Optimised for combat, useless everywhere else. Congratulations.

This isn't even optimized for combat.

Just look at that will save.

Sovereign Court

Count Duck wrote:

Looks great!

but what wiht your mental stats!

You have a awful personalaty, when you try to say something nice you insult someone.
You are to stupid to realize that you even insulting the dragon. And above all! With that wisdom you always fail to see an ambush!

But if you play only combat and no roleplay at all then this is ultimate powerplay.

True, the build is only about combat, but that's kind of the point of the optimization.

I'm not sure how many people have played in Pathfinder Society modules, but they are all primarily combat games. You have four hours to play and the first 10 to 15 minutes are spent on campaign housekeeping, along with getting your intro to the module.

The intros are always basically the same thing, meet the head pathfinder guy who says, "go here, and get this" and then off we go.

The modules normally have five encounters and with less than four hours to wrap up the module you need to blaze through those encounters. There really isn't much in the way of roleplaying, mainly they are just linked combat encounters.

There's always someone in the party that's playing something with more moderate stats and skills and so they can usually do the talking. With this build you just wait for initiative, which will be happening shortly, and then start mowing targets down.

The low Will save is a problem, however as an archer you tend to not be the one getting in the face of the spellcaster and so it's much less likely that you'll get zapped with the spells, because someone else will be charging forward and grabbing all the attention.

Now, if a GM in our local Pathfinder Society started dominating a guy like this and killing off the rest of the party... well, all I can say is I doubt many people would want to sit down at his table again. Bloodthirsty GMs are really frowned upon in our neck of the woods.

Overall though, optimized combat combat monsters are really needed in Pathfinder Society games, because there are just too many encounters in the modules. You need to shut the encounters down as quickly as possible so that you have more downtime in the game. It sounds kind of odd, but powergaming is what actually allows for enough time to roleplay in our PFS sessions.


pathfinder is a rpg. i hate to see only combat builds u would not last a min at a real game. u play to have fun and use all the game has to offer not part of it. sorry if i come off mean but i play rpg's for story first,combat second.

Sovereign Court

sixdsixdamage wrote:
pathfinder is a rpg. i hate to see only combat builds u would not last a min at a real game. u play to have fun and use all the game has to offer not part of it. sorry if i come off mean but i play rpg's for story first,combat second.

All I can say is there are lots of different ways to play RPGs. For some, the boardgamey tactical part of the game is the most fun and not the talking and improv.

I'm quite happy playing different styles, from deep immersive games where no combat happens at all, to pure dungeoncrawls that are just six hours of combat.

Pathfinder Society is a particularly combat heavy type of RPG so the build is slanted to that. You wouldn't be very effective and might not have a lot of fun if you play PFS as a deep immersion sandbox experience. It just doesn't line up well with the campaign structure.

Shadow Lodge

Mok wrote:
A lot of assumptions about PFS

You are making a lot of assumptions here that other players are going to cover for your weaknesses. I'm not sure if this character is for con play but what happens if 5 people show up with Uber Archers? I can see other players getting quite irritated if they showed up at a con and your one trick pony got hit with confusion or dominated and killed their character.

On an unrelated note, many of the faction missions are based on making a successful skill checks. Unless someone else in the party is covering for you there you are pretty much SOL on a good number of faction missions and will find you are falling behind on PA.

Sczarni

Has PFS gaming really devolved into rocket-tag so thoroughly?

I have yet to play in an official table, but if that's the style generated, I would rather go to the Warmachine table.

As far as "bloodthirsty" dms goes...if there's a ranged combatant dropping allies left and right, he becomes prime Will Save-or-Die bait real quick.

Playing enemies otherwise is tantamount to setting the game on "easy" mode.

Just my opinion, of course, and ot whole were at it.

-t

Shadow Lodge

psionichamster wrote:

Has PFS gaming really devolved into rocket-tag so thoroughly?

I have yet to play in an official table, but if that's the style generated, I would rather go to the Warmachine table.

As far as "bloodthirsty" dms goes...if there's a ranged combatant dropping allies left and right, he becomes prime Will Save-or-Die bait real quick.

Playing enemies otherwise is tantamount to setting the game on "easy" mode.

Just my opinion, of course, and ot whole were at it.

I've GMed PFS at several cons and recently set up a group, most groups are pretty laid back. The modules are a bit tight for the original 4 hour window but Josh now recommends 5 hours for a session and the Paizocon schedule reflects this.


0gre wrote:
Mok wrote:
A lot of assumptions about PFS

You are making a lot of assumptions here that other players are going to cover for your weaknesses. I'm not sure if this character is for con play but what happens if 5 people show up with Uber Archers? I can see other players getting quite irritated if they showed up at a con and your one trick pony got hit with confusion or dominated and killed their character.

On an unrelated note, many of the faction missions are based on making a successful skill checks. Unless someone else in the party is covering for you there you are pretty much SOL on a good number of faction missions and will find you are falling behind on PA.

Dominate, hold person, ambushes and party split ups(who's problem are you gonna be?)

I have seen fighter archers and a strenght of 16 is more then enough. that should give your character enough points to skip the retard, ashwole and blind part of you character.


Again, I feel the need to point out, this isn't an optimized character. You've made a one hit wonder with some hilariously sizable weaknesses.


I really should bookmark FighterMan so I can trot him out for all the archer threads. Lemme go look him up...

Ah, there we go. HERE is my optimized level 20 Fighter Archer. You can fairly easily deconstruct him from that. He's not perfectly optimized, but he'd demolish pretty much any non-perfectly-optimized enemy when with a party, and you can easily change his skills around to be more useful in a party (his skills are set up for solo fighting).


Mok, you should take a good long look at Zurai's Fighter. The character you have created is the definition of a one shot wonder, his will save is so open to abuse it would be like adventuring with a Frenzied barbarian, awe inspiring when under perfect conditions, but a hassle and downright danger to the party at all times. Not only that, but the fighter is functionally retarded, roleplaying wise, do you want to roleplay that?

Mok wrote:

The low Will save is a problem, however as an archer you tend to not be the one getting in the face of the spellcaster and so it's much less likely that you'll get zapped with the spells, because someone else will be charging forward and grabbing all the attention.

Now, if a GM in our local Pathfinder Society started dominating a guy like this and killing off the rest of the party... well, all I can say is I doubt many people would want to sit down at his table again. Bloodthirsty GMs are really frowned upon in our neck of the woods.

That wouldn't be the DM's fault, it would be your fault. People would not want to sit next to this character again.

To fix the character, I'd suggest increasing your wisdom to 14, and investing in Iron will and Improved Iron Will. You don't have to increase your intelligence....if you don't want to be drooling on the table. It also couldn't hurt to raise your constitution, you'll need the HP and fortitude.

Keep your Dexterity high, and lower that strength to make the adjustments.

If your concerned this will weaken your character in combat, consider the monsters that currently outright defeat you. -Dragons, Vampires, almost all Demons and Devils, any Spellcasters, Hags, Fey, Aberrations. That's a vast swath of the bestiary, and creatures like these make up almost all of the monsters above 10 CR. So rather than getting stronger in higher levels, this build actually becomes more and more vulnerable.

Something to think about.

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