The Shadow Demon, a level 6 summon, can cast Magic Jar 1/day. However, he is an incorporeal.
A large part of Magic Jar deals with the caster's body. But incorporeals have no body. So how, according to the rules, do incorporeals deal with mechanics related to the caster's body when they cast Magic Jar? Does it mean that no matter how far the jar / host is from where the incorporeal initially cast the spell, he doesn't die of failure to return to his own "body?" When the spell ends, would he materialize just outside the former host or the jar itself? Does it mean that when the spell ends, the incorporeal is automatically slain because he is closest to the clause, "or die if your body is... destroyed?"
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I would say that an incorporeal creature should *really* think twice about casting magic jar.
They don't have a body to leave behind. This is bad because it means they can never return to their body. Thus, they can't end the spell that way. They have to wait it out.
And then they die, since they can't return to their body.
So, yeah, not a good idea.
Letting it function like a ghostly possesion makes sense to me.
If the shadow demon dies when it use magic jar, it just doesn't make any sense that they have the spell in the first place.
Concerning summon however, they won't come with the gem required for the spell, since they aren't physical and don't carry physical equipment. In that case they spell caster needs to carry it (and pay for it) to let them use it.
Another problem might arise from the inability to know specifically who you are possesing. I'd guess that most shadow demons doesn't care whether it is a PC or NPC and what happens to them.
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With a careful reading of the shadow demon entry, it looks like the intent was to have the shadow demon use that as its method of possession. The flavor text strongly implies that possessing is what shadow demons do.
And that magic jar is their only way to do so.
So, in order to make this usable, here is what I would do:
Body as mentioned in the spell should refer to either a physical body, or an incorporeal body. When the incorporeal body of the shadow demon is left behind, the demon should be careful not to leave it in an area where sunlight can reach it.
Otherwise, go for it.
Not quite the "official" answer, but one that makes the intent of the creature possible.
"An incorporeal creature has no physical body."
"By casting magic jar, you place your soul in a gem or large crystal (known as the magic jar), leaving your body lifeless."
Incorporeal creatures have no physical bodies therefore can't leave a physical body behind when they cast the spell (or use the spell like ability in this case).
I am going to be running one of these against my players soon. Any suggestions on how to handle this?
Thanks.
-Venom
Outsiders have no souls, so they couldn't use Magic Jar anyway...
With a careful reading of the shadow demon entry, it looks like the intent was to have the shadow demon use that as its method of possession.
In the Book of Vile Darkness' version of the monster, which seems to be the model for the pathfinder version, the fluff says that shadow demons use this ability to trap souls for planar trade.
Of course, that can't work either, but I suppose that's the origin of the mistake.I'd use the possession rules from the Fiendish Codex I to write an additional ability for the demon, and maybe replace Magic Jar with Trap the Soul.
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"An incorporeal creature has no physical body."
"By casting magic jar, you place your soul in a gem or large crystal (known as the magic jar), leaving your body lifeless."
Incorporeal creatures have no physical bodies therefore can't leave a physical body behind when they cast the spell (or use the spell like ability in this case).
Right, so the shadow demon doesn't leave a lifeless body behind. Its form simply disappears. When it ends its possession, it reappears.
Nice Threadomancy (or what ever it is for raising a thread from the dead). There is nothing in the description of the Demon, Shadow to suggest that the Spell Like Ability acts in any other way, so yes your soul returns. (I would suggest that your soul and mind are still within the body, as a play thing of the Demon)
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Nice Threadomancy (or what ever it is for raising a thread from the dead). There is nothing in the description of the Demon, Shadow to suggest that the Spell Like Ability acts in any other way, so yes your soul returns. (I would suggest that your soul and mind are still within the body, as a play thing of the Demon)
Threadmancy is better than starting a new thread. (It's not that only anyway.) I'm asking because my GM claims my souls is now lost in another plane. I claim that Paizo hate save-or-die die spells and that this is even worse as if your soul is lost then you can't even be resurrected.
Magic Jar "...As a standard action, you can shift freely from a host to the magic jar if within range, sending the trapped soul back to its body. The spell ends when you shift from the jar to your own body.
If the host body is slain, you return to the magic jar, if within range, and the life force of the host departs (it is dead). If the host body is slain beyond the range of the spell, both you and the host die. Any life force with nowhere to go is treated as slain..."
Given its a Spell Like Ability, without the Focus (a gem or crystal worth at least 100 gp) you cannot go beyond the range of the focus.
So if the Demon is forced out of your body, you are fine (up to the point when the next attack comes in). If your body is slain then you are dead. Again nothing says that this death is extraordinary.
If this has happened to you - talk to your GM, it sounds like a plot hook for the rest of the party to find your soul.
I get what's going on. The SU references the spell, and the spell specifies that there be an actual vessel - a 'magic jar' to hold the displaced soul. There isn't one in the case of a shadow demon, so the DM's ruled it's elsewhere. Like as though the vessel that the spell requires was destroyed, right?
It's a hole in the rules. RAI is that demon possession is more like in The Exorcist. The soul is a prisoner of it's own body, which is being dominated by the invading spirit. Spirit leaves, the soul just resumes control. That's not RAW, though. Raw doesn't bother to explicitly define a distinction, just references the spell, which specifically calls for a vessel. You could argue, if he wants to get technical, that since the spell requires a vessel - the shadow demon needs a vessel. But he can come back with how SUs dispense with foci. There's nothing explicitly stating what happens to the soul in the case of MJ as a SU, so it'd be his call to house rule on the fly what happens to it.
Common practice, and designer's intent, I think, is to treat it like as per the age old trope of demon posession, The Exorcist, Evil dead, etc. though.
I just treat it like a possession which is what I think it should have been called. Have 4 of these things possess the party, and TPK. Now I would not really do that, but having 2 people possessed and have them run off.....
yea, they totally should have erattaed shadowdemon with that language. They didn't though, still just says Magic Jar, like it's per the spell, not per the ghost ability which is similar to the spell. (oh and it's a SP not SU, mistyped before).