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hey guys i am running kingmaker and in it they went to winter and started to experience Cold weather and snow. (really fun) the problem is that now instead of having a fun campagin in winter they will all use endure elements and remove that side of the fun
Got any ideas about it?
As a DM I find different enviroments fun, most players don't. All you are left with after Endure Elements is snow to slow down movement or ice to make certain combat...more slippery.
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Who is being cold and experiencing penalties due to frostbite fun for? You? Them? The players are utilizing the spell for what it is meant to do. There are still many ways to take advantage of Winter - difficult terrain, frozen rivers/lakes, hungry winter beasties, etc. Have fun with those options! Prolonged exposure is not the only avenue of attack.
Weather is an obstacle. They are using their limited daily resources to overcome that obstacle. As DM you have two options. Shrug, and move on to the next obstacle, or deny them their perfectly reasonable solution to the obstacle. I'll leave it to you to determine which path a good DM would take.
One further note. The methods by which your party can avoid or overcome obstacles increases exponentially as the party advances in levels. If Endure Elements spoils your fun, what are you going to do when Teleport rolls around?
I think using Endure Elements to "spoil the fun of winter" is much like using Light to "spoil the fun of darkness".
Yes it happens. The light/darkness thing happens all the time. It's a regular part of the game. Winter challenges are not as regular, but ultimately it's the same exact thing: give them a challenge and let them decide to deal with it or conquer it as they see fit. That's what all this magic is for, isn't it?
As I see it, choosing to use up 4 level 1 spells (assuming a party of 4 PCs) means there are 4 fewer spells they can ues for encounters. Those spells are resources, and using them for this limits them in other ways - which is perfectly fine in my book; let the players decide which limitation to deal with.
Now that I said I think it's fine, here's a way to "take it away" from them. Note: I would not do this constantly, but maybe just once to illustrate the perils of winter.
Have a busy day adventuring so that they use up most or all of their spell slots. Then when they sleep, hit them with a couple little encounters. Easy enough to deal with, but the casters won't get enough rest to prepare new spells.
Then comes morning and yesterday's Endure Elements spells fade off and leave them standing there shivering in the cold.
Hmmmm, might not work if they bought a wand or a truckload of potions. I guess those could be stolen, but ideally, you would let them track the thief and get them back before they freeze to death.
There are lots of ways. Dispel Magic, antimagic, a "cold-snap" that is actually colder than -50 degrees, etc. But all those are higher level nastiness that may not be "fair" to use on low-level characters.
Interruptions to rest just require an extra hour of rest per interruption to regain spells DM_Blake. Magic section for that one. The most it buys you as a DM is an hour per attack.
Beyond that this is exactly what that spell is supposed to do -- if your players are burning a spell dealing with the weather are you going to give them Exp for it? If not let it work and leave them alone and move on to something else.
Interruptions to rest just require an extra hour of rest per interruption to regain spells DM_Blake. Magic section for that one. The most it buys you as a DM is an hour per attack.
Yes, I know. Maybe I should have said "a few" instead of "a couple". It's even better if you can get the casters to burn a couple spells during these mid-night fights, because those slots won't be ready for at least 8 hours from the time of the fight (which could be right before dawn).
Also, those encounters don't have to be "Wake up, fight, back to bed" encounters. Maybe they are chases through the dark wooods that last for hours, or some kind of quick moster that keeps using hit-n-run tactics to fire an arrow at a PC and disappear into the night, only to be back in a half hour doing it again, and again, and again. Lots of ways to do this so the casters don't merely sleep an extra couple of hours.
But, assuming they cast their Endure Elements spells at morning time yesterday, then even being a couple hours late today means it will take roughly 26 hours to get around to recasting them.
Heck, I wouldn't be too far out in left field to rule that once those spells wear off (24 hours since yesterday morning) before the casters have made up the 2-3 hours they lost during nighttime encounters, they are now shivering in the freezing snow - so dang cold that they can't rest anymore. One might say that shivering and freezing to death is a "fairly demanding physical or mental task", which counts as a continuous interruption to getting those last few hours of rest.
Who is being cold and experiencing penalties due to frostbite fun for? You? Them? The players are utilizing the spell for what it is meant to do. There are still many ways to take advantage of Winter - difficult terrain, frozen rivers/lakes, hungry winter beasties, etc. Have fun with those options! Prolonged exposure is not the only avenue of attack.
This.
As Jeremiziah has pointed out, the direct effects of cold are not the only thing that makes winter a trial:
Days are shorter, which means less daylight time in which to operate without the aide of torches, lanterns, darkvision, light spells, etc. Food is scarcer -- not just for PC's, but also for their mounts, for the innocent bystanders, and, as J pointed out, for monsters and animals who might usually just want to be left alone, but now think it might be worth attacking the party to get a bite of horse flesh (or worse). When he mentioned frozen rivers and lakes, that's a multi-faceted threat. Not only is it slippery, but it could be thin or damaged, and falling in is a real threat. Snowy ground makes it easier for baddies to track you, unless the PC's are the trackers, in which case a sudden heavy snow can COVER tracks. Heavy ice on branches can cause them to break and fall, posing sudden threats. Mountainous terrain? One word: Avalanche! A sudden warm snap can cause snow and ice to melt at a much faster rate than the ground can thaw, causing flooding. And a prolonged thaw means mud. Just ask the Wehrmacht about that. Blizzards reduce visibility, and can lead to getting lost, or missing a turn in the trail and stepping off cliffs, into deep drifts, etc. A blanket of snow can cover over hazards like deadfall logs, sudden holes, etc., and could be treated like traps, only harder to detect because they're not in obvious locations and are untampered with by intelligent hands.
That's just what I could come up with off the top of my head.
What exactly was the fun you were hoping for? I ask because people don't generally go into winter unprepared - if they didn't have endure elements, they'd have winter clothes and blankets, thus also circumventing any temperature-related problems. Cold is only a big deal if you aren't prepared for it.
The PCs could also invest in a pair of boots of the winterland. Not only do they get endure elements vs cold, but they get other bonuses regarding movement over snow and ice.
If you want to challenge them with the cold, have it so that they need to escort/rescue others who do not have either the boots or the spells. Will the heroes give up their item/boots to the pregnant/old/hurt individuals?
The PCs could also invest in a pair of boots of the winterland. Not only do they get endure elements vs cold, but they get other bonuses regarding movement over snow and ice.
If you want to challenge them with the cold, have it so that they need to escort/rescue others who do not have either the boots or the spells. Will the heroes give up their item/boots to the pregnant/old/hurt individuals?
Or will they simply be smart enough to have extras/ mundane weather gear? After all people in the real world have dealt with winter with little/ no problems for a very long time now, and the stolen lands aren't exactly in the arctic here -- they're smack in the temperate zone.
Well it is generally a side of DnD and Pathfinder, that these things doesn't come into effect.
Personally I like games, where it actually makes a difference that the Ranger or Druid is the ultimate outdoorsy types when the party is on the road.
But all such mundane tasks is made irrelevant by the magic system as it is. Create food and water, secure shelter, endure elements, and of course teleport, makes these things obsolete at a rather early point of a game.
they'd have winter clothes and blankets, thus also circumventing any temperature-related problems. Cold is only a big deal if you aren't prepared for it.
...but they would have other dramas as that stuff wont go well over chain/plate :P
they'd have winter clothes and blankets, thus also circumventing any temperature-related problems. Cold is only a big deal if you aren't prepared for it....but they would have other dramas as that stuff wont go well over chain/plate :P
Doesn't need to, the padding under chain and plate is generally rather warm in and of itself.
I am a player at a similar spot in that campaign.
I deliberately spurn endure elements in favor of Survival rolls, cold weather gear, and a winter blanket. I have a high-ish Fortitude save, and it's foolish to drain the party resources for no reason.
Let the frail spellcasters depend on magic for comfort, unless we're talking about a serious hazard.