One of my players this weekend made mention that there had been some changes to the Summon Monster spell at some point. A player of mine was using a Summon 1 for a Riding Dog. He mentioned that there was some change for the Riding Dog and possibly some of the other summons. Love to track down what he was talking about, but a few casual searches didn't locate what I was looking for. Advise would be great.
Barator
One of my players this weekend made mention that there had been some changes to the Summon Monster spell at some point. A player of mine was using a Summon 1 for a Riding Dog. He mentioned that there was some change for the Riding Dog and possibly some of the other summons. Love to track down what he was talking about, but a few casual searches didn't locate what I was looking for. Advise would be great.
Barator
To the best of my knowledge the only thing changed was that the riding dog got changed to a regular dog, and the ant drone (on SMII list) got changed to a Worker ant
The ELementalist is correct and you can find the Errata on your "My Downloads" page at the top. In the Errata it has this update.
As a side note you should probably thank your player for his honestly and telling you about this change.
Might want to also note that, unless the Bestiary goes into more depth than the online SRD as far as the templates concerned go, Fiendish and Celestial no longer increase the intelligence of animals. Thus, no int 3 celestial dogs, no celestial as a language, thus no commanding it beyond the default "attacks nearest enemy" in the spell text.
It seems as though wizards now need Speak With Animal to use low level summons effectively.
If this is different in the Bestiary (which I have not yet purchased) I would be glad to know, as I find it a bit counter intuitive.
Might want to also note that, unless the Bestiary goes into more depth than the online SRD as far as the templates concerned go, Fiendish and Celestial no longer increase the intelligence of animals. Thus, no int 3 celestial dogs, no celestial as a language, thus no commanding it beyond the default "attacks nearest enemy" in the spell text.
It seems as though wizards now need Speak With Animal to use low level summons effectively.
If this is different in the Bestiary (which I have not yet purchased) I would be glad to know, as I find it a bit counter intuitive.
The celestial/fiendish templates offer no ability score bonuses; despite their outsider type, they're still considered animals. While this makes sense, I really hope more summoning options are offered in the APG.
Which raises the question: are they outsiders, or are they animals? If they are outsiders, then technically neither Wild Empathy, Handle Animal, nor Speak With Animal will give any degree of control or ability to communicate with them. Technially, even Tounges wouldn't, because they don't have a language to understand.
Not sure if I like this change....
Which raises the question: are they outsiders, or are they animals? If they are outsiders, then technically neither Wild Empathy, Handle Animal, nor Speak With Animal will give any degree of control or ability to communicate with them. Technially, even Tounges wouldn't, because they don't have a language to understand.
Not sure if I like this change....
You need Handle Animal to "push" them to do anything other than attack the nearest bad guy. Or summon elementals and learn Terran, Auran, Ignan and Aquan. After that skill point in Arcana and Spellcraft the Wizard might use them in Linguistics. I play a Conjuration spelcialist and believe me its not a problem.
Which raises the question: are they outsiders, or are they animals?
The celestial and fiendish templates doesn't say anything about changing the type of the base creature, so no reason to expect that they are outsiders.
If they were, it would change rather a lot in terms of HP and attack bonus, which by no means can be intended.
Some applies for making them magical beasts, although this would be more fitting for the spell text: "summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane)".
Instead you should regard them as Animals (as their type) native to another plane (hence the template).
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Note that the Dog / Riding Dog change has not made it into the eratta for either 1st printing (last update 5/26/10) or 2nd printing.
Page 351
In Table 10–1: Summon Monster, move the “Giant Frog”
entry from the 4th level list to the 2nd level list. Move
the “Giant Spider” entry from the 3rd level list to the 2nd
level list. Make the same changes to Table 10–2: Summon
Nature’s Ally on page 353 (the Giant Spider appears on the
5th level list).Page 351
In Table 10–1: Summon Monster, change the Lillend
azata subtype to “Chaotic, Good.”Page 351
In Table 10–1: Summon Monster, change “Ant, drone” in the
2nd Level list to “Ant, giant (worker).” Change “Ant, soldier”
in the 3rd Level list to “Ant, giant (soldier).” Add “Ant, giant
(drone)*” to the 4th Level list. Make the same changes to
Table 10–2: Summon Nature’s Ally on page 353 (do not include
the “*” in the Ant, giant (drone) entry on this table).Page 352
In Table 10–1: Summon Monster, change the Ghaele azata
subtype to “Chaotic, Good.” Also change the Trumpet
archon’s subtypes to “Good, Lawful.”
Since James statement linked above was made on 12/21/09, five months before the last update to the eratta, I'm not sure if they backed down on that particular change, or it's just been lost in the shuffle.