RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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How much hardness and how many HP does an average Wizard's spellbook have? What about a Blessed Book?
Background: my players found an evil Wizard's spellbook, which he has trapped with Explosive Runes. Assuming they are set off, the spellbook will take 6d6 points of force damage. Would there be anything left afterwards?
Blowing up your own spellbook with explosive runes you set seems to be counterproductive AND counterintuitive...
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How much hardness and how many HP does an average Wizard's spellbook have? What about a Blessed Book?
Background: my players found an evil Wizard's spellbook, which he has trapped with Explosive Runes. Assuming they are set off, the spellbook will take 6d6 points of force damage. Would there be anything left afterwards?
I would make a judgement call based on the amount of damage rolled.
An average spellbook has 100 pages, so say 1 point of force damage shreds 3 pages of the book...
Best case scenario, the first 18-20 pages are gone.
Worst case, the whole book is confetti.
I haven't read the description of explosive runes in a long time, it seems. It USED to be fire damage, IIRC.
How much hardness and how many HP does an average Wizard's spellbook have? What about a Blessed Book?
Background: my players found an evil Wizard's spellbook, which he has trapped with Explosive Runes. Assuming they are set off, the spellbook will take 6d6 points of force damage. Would there be anything left afterwards?
I would make a judgement call based on the amount of damage rolled.
An average spellbook has 100 pages, so say 1 point of force damage shreds 3 pages of the book...
Best case scenario, the first 18-20 pages are gone.
Worst case, the whole book is confetti.
I haven't read the description of explosive runes in a long time, it seems. It USED to be fire damage, IIRC.
A book would be UTTERLY destroyed by 6d6 damage. Paper has 0 hardness and 2hp/inch. A hundred pages may have 2 HP. Though, being leather bound, it would get an extra 2 hardness and maybe one more HP.
A blessed book would have 10 hardness and maybe 5 or 6 HP.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Best case scenario, the first 18-20 pages are gone.Worst case, the whole book is confetti.
I haven't read the description of explosive runes in a long time, it seems. It USED to be fire damage, IIRC.
Sounds reasonable. I'd like them to be able to salvage *some* of the book, even if the trap goes off.
The PRD says it's force damage, though I think Fire makes a bit more sense for an explosion. *shrug*
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Hmm... unless it's the spellbook he WANTS them to find, and has cleverly stashed his REAL spellbook under the rogue...
Seriously though, with that much carryover damage, there won't be anything left of that book to salvage. Much less anything that would be interpretable as a scroll one could use to learn a spell.
If that's what you're shooting for, have a few scrolls rolled up in his pouch, or a few pages slip free before they get to the reading.
Symbol spells can also be a lot fun, unless you're just trying to destroy the book.
I have always disliked this about Explosive Runes.
No wizard in his right mind would use such a spell to protect his precious spellbook. One mishap by a foolish rogue, or a curious apprentice, and our insane wizard has no spellbook.
That's a huge, huge, huge expenditure of time and money to replace, and likely, the guy is nearly powerless without that book.
If I were the wizard, I would find a different solution. If my book is lost or stolen, I would use divinations (even if I had to pay for them from some church in town) to find it, then I would go get it back, using the spells I still have memorized and my magic items, of course.
But, at least I would get it back - something you can never do if you "protect" it with Explosive Runes.
No, that spell was poorly thought out. It should automatically exclude the item the runes are written on, or better yet, allow the caster to decide when he casts it. That way, the spell can be used to protect valuable documents and/or destroy incriminating evidence.
I could imagine a rather jealious and insane wizard who has mastered some rather rare and powerful magic not wanting it to fall into someone elses hands.
Sure, but the only problem with that is, once someone monkeys with his spellbook, just one time, and now that rare and powerful magic can never fall into his own hands again.
And let's face it, wizards who are capable of mastering rare and powerful magic have lots of enemies, and lots of treasure-seekers want their stuff, so it's almost bound to happen sooner or later. No, destroying his only source of power to protect it from thieves is a Very Bad Idea.
Although, to be fair, you did mention that he was insane, which was also my criteria for a wizard using Explosive Runes to "protect" a spellbook.
To me it smacks more of a DM's treatment of a spellbook not a wizards. Perhaps crossing a perimeter or leaving the sanctum would blow it up but opening it? Too many ways an accident or jealous rival could leave you without a spellbook.
sigurd
Complete Arcana has a table for spell books
100 page Leather bound spellbook has a hardness of 2 and 1hp
100 vellum page spellbook bound in dragon hide has a hardness of 4 and 5hps.
Complete Arcana has a table for spell books
100 page Leather bound spellbook has a hardness of 2 and 1hp
100 vellum page spellbook bound in dragon hide has a hardness of 4 and 5hps.
That's really low HP given paper itself DOES have an HP/inch
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You're right. Normally a wizard wouldn't use explosive runes for protecting his spellbook. He'd use sepia snake sigil to do that.
He might switch over to explosive runes though, if he was going into a dangerous situation and wanted to leave a booby trap in case he was killed.
For every day *relaxing in my hut studying my spells* it'd be the sigil. For more extraordinary *I know that violence is coming* type situations, it's entirely believable to me that the wizard would make a *combat spellbook*, complete with explosive runes, with just the spells he thinks he'll need the most. Meanwhile, the true repository of his knowledge would sit safely at his tower, or within the confines of the local mages guild.
At any rate, there is almost no way the spellbook won't be destroyed completely. It would have to be written on sheets of mithral and bound in adamantium.
At any rate, there is almost no way the spellbook won't be destroyed completely. It would have to be written on sheets of mithral and bound in adamantium.
[cough]Plot armor![/cough]
Just sayin', if it absolutely positively has to survive there's always a way.
At any rate, there is almost no way the spellbook won't be destroyed completely. It would have to be written on sheets of mithral and bound in adamantium.[cough]Plot armor![/cough]
Just sayin', if it absolutely positively has to survive there's always a way.
Don't put explosive runes on the book itself?
Wouldn't wizards tend to have spares just in case, or even cast defensive spells on the book? A single chop of a sword shouldn't be able to go through a wizard's book.
Maybe, if money wasn't the issue.
Assuming a 100 page spellbook filled with 10 fourth level and 12 fifth level spells, the cost to make a spare one is:
10 x 160 /2 = 800 gp
12 x 250 /2 = 1500 gp
1 x 15 gp = 15 gp
So, for 2,315 GP and 16.5 days spent toiling over this copy, the wizard can reproduce this spellbook.
If we suppose this wizard is 10th level, he should have around 62,000 GP. 2,315 GP is nearly 4% of his total worth. Maybe that's worth it. It's certainly better than losing his collection of 4th and 5th level spells.
Now, in my experience, my wizard was the poorest member of the group. I never had more than two platinum pieces to rub together. As soon as I did, I usually had at least one more spell I wanted. I often paid other NPC wizards for scrolls, then paid the full price to scribe that scroll into my spellbook. Adding a single 5th level spell to my own spellbooks this way costs 1,125 + 250 = 1,375 GP. That's expensive. When I turned 9th level I bought five 5th level spells for 6,875 GP which was about 1/6 of the total amount of gold I had ever earned, give or take, in my entire career.
Wizards go broke fast. Very fast. Sure, the fighter buys magic armor and weapons. He goes broke too. But he always seemed to have a few thousand gold floating around at any given time. Not so for my impoverished wizard.
Finding 2,315 gold to backup one portion of my spell library, just so I could trap it with Explosive Runes, was forever out of the question. There were plenty of other ways to protect my spellbooks without destroying them.
Don't put explosive runes on the book itself?At any rate, there is almost no way the spellbook won't be destroyed completely. It would have to be written on sheets of mithral and bound in adamantium.[cough]Plot armor![/cough]
Just sayin', if it absolutely positively has to survive there's always a way.
Interesting, but hard to do given the OP's dilemma.
The OP wants to protect the spellbook. It doesn't matter if the runes are on the book itself, or on the bookshelf next to the book, either way, the book will be in the blast radius.
Technically, the spell references the reader and the object the runes are written on get no save. Presumably, this means we might allow a save for the other books on the shelf. Or, if the runes are written on the shelf, then all the books (spellbooks included) on that shelf will get a save.
Then again, it's hard to say that the spellbook is really safer from a rune 1 inch away than it is from a rune written on its cover. Furthermore, if the rune isn't on (or in) the spellbook itself, then there is a good chance that the book might be stolen or destroyed without anyone ever triggering the rune.
Now, I suppose you could put your spellbook inside a fireproof bag (Woven from asbestos? Made from a red dragon's bladder?) and put the explosive runes on the outside of the bag...
Use something that doesn't blow up the immediate area then.
His dilemma is he WANTS them to get the spellbook, but he wants to make it difficult. (Not handing out loot out of spite is rather mean) What he is doing makes it impossible short of DM fiat. And if you are going to use DM fiat anyway, be creative. Touching the spellbook without using the magic words causes golems to come to life. Make the desk the book sits on a mimic. Put the book on a low pedestal and a glyph of warding on the ceiling that blows up with a radius just short of hitting the book.
Use something that doesn't blow up the immediate area then.
His dilemma is he WANTS them to get the spellbook, but he wants to make it difficult. (Not handing out loot out of spite is rather mean) What he is doing makes it impossible short of DM fiat. And if you are going to use DM fiat anyway, be creative. Touching the spellbook without using the magic words causes golems to come to life. Make the desk the book sits on a mimic. Put the book on a low pedestal and a glyph of warding on the ceiling that blows up with a radius just short of hitting the book.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Here is my idea, why not keep the explosive runes spell, and since it is FORCE dmg, you can, as some one said before "amor plot" and keep a few pages intact in a beautiful blast of paper and blood of the poor bastad that triggers the runes XD
You could rule that the force damage doesnt burns the paper, jsut torns it apart.-
No wizard in his right mind doesn't have backup copies.
No wizard in his right mind would use such a spell to protect his precious spellbook.
OK, I guess I didn't make my point about how expensive this is.
Here is spellbook my Universalist wizard had at 9th level:
20 pages
Level 1:
(c)Alarm
(c)Burning Hands
(c)Charm Person
(c)Color Spray
(c)Detect Secret Doors
(c)Endure Elements
(c)Enlarge Person
(c)Feather Fall
(c)Grease
(c)Identify
(b)Mage Armor - 3
(b)Magic Missile - 3
(s)Shield - 5
(p)Sleep - 5 + 25 = 30
(p)Unseen Servant - 5 + 25 = 30
15 pages
Total cost for my primary spellbook: 71 gp
Total cost to make one copy: 45 gp
Level 2:
(c)Arcane Lock
(c)AcidArrow
(c)Bear's Endurance
(c)Blur
(b)Bull's Strength - 5
(b)Cat's grace - 5
(b)Continual Flame - 5
(b)Glitterdust - 5
(s)Hideous Laughter - 10
(s)Knock - 10
(s)Levitate - 10
(s)Mirror Image - 10
(p)Protection from Arrows - 10 + 150 = 160
(p)Resist Energy - 10 + 150 = 160
(p)Rope Trick - 10 + 150 = 160
(p)Scare - 10 + 150 = 160
(p)Scorching Ray - 10 + 150 = 160
(p)See Invisibility - 10 + 150 = 160
(p)Spider Climb - 10 + 150 = 160
(p)Web - 10 + 150 = 160
40 pages
Total cost for my primary spellbook: 1,340 gp
Total cost to make one copy: 100 gp
Level 3
(c)Dispel Magic
(c)Arcane Sight
(c)Blink
(c)Deep Slumber
(b)Displacement - 20
(b)Explosive Runes - 20
(b)Fireball - 20
(b)Fly - 20
(s)Gaseous Form - 40
(s)Halt Undead - 40
(s)Haste - 40
(s)Magic Circle against Alignment - 40
(p)Magic Weapon, Greater - 40 + 375 = 415
(p)Protection from Energy - 40 + 375 = 415
(p)Sepia Snake Sigil - 40 + 375 = 415
(p)Sleet Storm - 40 + 375 = 415
(p)Slow - 40 + 375 = 415
(p)Tiny Hut - 40 + 375 = 415
(p)Tongues - 40 + 375 = 415
(p)Water Breathing - 40 + 375 = 415
60 pages
Total cost for my primary spellbook: 3,520 gp
Total cost to make one copy: 400 gp
Level 4
(c)Remove Curse
(c)Bestow Curse
(c)Charm Monster
(c)Crushing Despair
(b)Dimension Door - 45
(b)Enervation - 45
(s)Invisibility, Greater - 90
(s)Resilient Sphere - 90
(p)Scrying - 90 + 700 = 790
(p)Stoneskin - 90 + 700 = 790
(p)Wall of Fire - 90 + 700 = 790
44 pages
Total cost for my primary spellbook: 2,640 gp
Total cost to make one copy: 435 gp
Level 5
(c)Break Enchantment
(c)Cloudkill
(b)Cone of Cold - 125
(b)Dismissal - 125
(b)Fabricate - 125
(b)Feeblemind - 125
(s)Hold Monster - 250
(s)Overland Flight - 250
(s)Permanency - 250
(p)Secret Chest - 250 + 1125 = 1,375
(p)Telekinesis - 250 + 1125 = 1,375
(p)Telepathic Bond - 250 + 1125 = 1,375
(p)Teleport - 250 + 1125 = 1,375
(p)Wall of Force - 250 + 1125 = 1,375
(p)Wall of Stone - 250 + 1125 = 1,375
75 pages
Total cost for my primary spellbook: 9,500 gp
Total cost to make one copy: 1,875 gp
Now, I got 10 first level spells, 4 second, 4 third, 4 fourth, and 2 fifth for free, just for being a wizard. I didn't exactly track, so I will say half of the rest came from scrolls and spellbooks he found adventuring. He other half I purchased from NPC wizards. I marked them in the spellbook as (c) for Class Feature, (b) for Found in an enemy's Spellbook, (s) for Found in a Scroll, and (p) for Purchased.
I also indicated the price I paid to add each spell to my primary spellbook. The (c) spells are free, the rest of the spells indicate the cost to copy them into my book. In the case of (p) spells, the second number is the cost to buy them from NPC wizards.
Final result is 17,101 gp just to create my primary spellbook. I should say spellbooks, since the total is 264 pages so it is really 3 books (minimum) - the price quoted includes buying two blank spellbooks.
At 9th level, the Core Rulebook says I should have 46,000 gold. That is ~37% of the total treasure (gold, gems, magic items, equipment, etc.) that I have found in my entire career as an adventuring wizard. I could have invested all that gold into a nice set of wands, or a decent staff, or a handful of magic items to make my adventuring life easier and safer. Instead, I invested it into my basic class ability. I can't be much of a spellcaster if I don't have spells to cast.
Now, if I trap those spellbooks with Explosive runes, I stand to lose an investment of 17,101 gp. 37% of my total net worth spent just so I can make good use of my primary class ability. That's a huge, huge, huge investment - it would truly be insane to blow it up with Explosive Runes.
Some have said I can make copies. Fine. I also listed the cost to do that. The final result is exactly 2,900 GP (including the price for three blank spellbooks). That is 6.3% of my total wealth I have ever earned. Actually, it is 10.0% of my liquid wealth after subtracting the 17,101 I paid to use my primary class ability.
It might be worth the cost and time to make those copies (speaking of time, that will take me 264 hours - working 8 hours per day, that's 33 days to make the copies) for the sake of having my own backup in case someone destroys my spellbooks. I really don't think it's worth a month of my time and 10% of my entire remaining net worth just for the sake of blowing them up.
I say, find another way to protect that investment.
I think your scribing costs are a bit off (too low actually). I think you read the cantrip line as 1st level, 1st level as 2nd, etc., except for 5th.
I count your total "duplicate" costs as:
I think your figures are a *bit* skewed, given half the total cost is 6 5th level scrolls you purchased, and a generally high number of spells (15 options for your 4 5th level spells per day, including arcane bond). A wizard *can* operate on a scribing cost of 0gp, though not recommended of course.
You may want to consider a blessed book. You can put your freely learned spells into your regular books, copy them for free to the blessed book, and put all other new spells into that, keeping a semi-backup copy.