| Tarvesh |
Just a few questions that I've tried scowering the books for and can't seem to find. If you know where in the book these answers are given could you please reference the page, it would be greatly appreiated.
Also, some of these are situational and require answers more in the line of opinions or house rulings.
1: How long does it take a character, mount, etc to become fatigued when going full out movement during travel?
2: Sundering a weapon of armor piece is something I can understand. However, when character want to target a specific body part, knees, hands, left shoulder, etc what would the increase in difficulty become to hit the specific point?
3. Massive damage rules. In 3.5 you had to make a fort save if you took 50% or more of your health in one attack to stay alive. Where is this rule in Pathfinder?
4. I had a player with a Darkmantle attached to him from head to torso. His arms were pinned to his side and the fighter comes up to wail on the Darkmantle. With each attack the Darkmantle took, I had the fighter roll a lower dice to injure the player. While the players argued that this wasn't how attacks into a grapple worked, I argued that this wasn't two humanoids wrestling with eachother. Anywhere the fighter hit the Darkmantle, the other player was only a thin leathery membrane underneath and didn't recieve damage immunity because of the Darkmantle. He was being hit as well as the creature. How would you have handled this?
| pipakin |
1: How long does it take a character, mount, etc to become fatigued when going full out movement during travel?
From the srd:
A character can't run for an extended period of time. Attempts to run and rest in cycles effectively work out to a hustle.
A character can hustle for 1 hour without a problem. Hustling for a second hour in between sleep cycles deals 1 point of nonlethal damage, and each additional hour deals twice the damage taken during the previous hour of hustling. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from hustling becomes fatigued.
2: Sundering a weapon of armor piece is something I can understand. However, when character want to target a specific body part, knees, hands, left shoulder, etc what would the increase in difficulty become to hit the specific point?
There aren't any rules for called shots. Mostly because if players had the option they would always aim for the head.
3. Massive damage rules. In 3.5 you had to make a fort save if you took 50% or more of your health in one attack to stay alive. Where is this rule in Pathfinder?
It's an optional rule in the core rulebook. (Note that the massive damage only triggers on 1/2 your HP OR 50 HP, whichever is larger)
4. I had a player with a Darkmantle attached to him from head to torso. His arms were pinned to his side and the fighter comes up to wail on the Darkmantle. With each attack the Darkmantle took, I had the fighter roll a lower dice to injure the player. While the players argued that this wasn't how attacks into a grapple worked, I argued that this wasn't two humanoids wrestling with eachother. Anywhere the fighter hit the Darkmantle, the other player was only a thin leathery membrane underneath and didn't recieve damage immunity because of the Darkmantle. He was being hit as well as the creature. How would you have handled this?
Your players were right. While some creatures get special rules to share damage with players they are grappling with, the darkmantle doesn't. Doing so makes it more dangerous, which should probably come with a CR increase (and subsequent XP increase).
| Charender |
2: Sundering a weapon of armor piece is something I can understand. However, when character want to target a specific body part, knees, hands, left shoulder, etc what would the increase in difficulty become to hit the specific point?
There are no rules for called shots to by pass armor, because it is assumed the character is always trying to bypass the targets armor.
Think of it this way. The penalty to hit the eye slit on someone wearing full plate is -9, full plate is a +9 AC bonus. You chance to hit is the same either way.
The closest thing I think of is that maybe with a successful knowledge check, you can get a +1 bonus to bypass armor.
As for other reason for called shots, it gets ugly real fast. If you have ever seen the GURPS system for body location hits it is complicated, and you have to buy your armor by location.
Generally, if you want something like hamstringing people, then your best bet is to create a feat. Something like, Crippling shot - You take a -4 penalty to hit, but you shot halves the targets movement speed.
| pipakin |
Thanks for the info so far. Another thing I've had come up is the group's archer wanting to try and disarm someone from range. I don't think it's impossible... but I don't know how it would work with the way disarming is done in PF.
There was a feat somewhere in a splat book for this in 3.5, but out of the box it can't be done AFAIK.
If you were wanting to homebrew something, a feat would probably be a decent tradeoff, maybe require some of the other ranged feats as a prereq (example: Point Blank Shot -> Precise Shot -> Ranged Disarm). I'd also put a hefty range penalty on it (maybe -2 for every half range increment or something) otherwise you'll have longbowmen disarming from like 600 ft away
| Ice Titan |
Thanks for the info so far. Another thing I've had come up is the group's archer wanting to try and disarm someone from range. I don't think it's impossible... but I don't know how it would work with the way disarming is done in PF.
You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a
melee attack.
Come on, man. Open the book.
| HorusHanabi |
Tarvesh wrote:Thanks for the info so far. Another thing I've had come up is the group's archer wanting to try and disarm someone from range. I don't think it's impossible... but I don't know how it would work with the way disarming is done in PF.Pathfinder Core Rulebook, pg. 199, Disarm: first line wrote:Come on, man. Open the book.You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a
melee attack.
That refers to melee attacks, not ranged. Come on, man.
| Tarvesh |
I did open the book. I'm asking about disarming from range, not melee. I know there was feat in 3.5. Sorry if I can't memorize every flippin rule.
I came for advice not criticism.
Not everyone is 20+ year dm and no one starts DMing with tons of experience. If you can't come to the table understanding that or with suggestions, don't post here. Thanks man.
| Tarvesh |
ranged disarm is in complete warrior.
Thanks.
Another few questions:
Is an Alchemist's bomb considered a special ability to qualify for Ability Focus on page 314 of the Bestiary? I wouldn't think so but i'd like some input.
For a summoner's pet, how many primary attacks does it get? I'm being told that if an eidalon gets a claw/claw/bite that they can all be primary unless the attack it gets is labeled as a secondary. That seems just a bit op seeing as the eidalon can get three attacks per round by level 4.
| Charender |
Name Violation wrote:ranged disarm is in complete warrior.Thanks.
Another few questions:
Is an Alchemist's bomb considered a special ability to qualify for Ability Focus on page 314 of the Bestiary? I wouldn't think so but i'd like some input.
For a summoner's pet, how many primary attacks does it get? I'm being told that if an eidalon gets a claw/claw/bite that they can all be primary unless the attack it gets is labeled as a secondary. That seems just a bit op seeing as the eidalon can get three attacks per round by level 4.
What does and does not qualify for ability focus is a matter of some debate, but letting players have feats from the beastary is generally considered an area of DM discretion. By default, the players can't have beastary feats unless the DM approves.
Eidalons start out pretty strong, but they actually fall behind a pure fighter as the characters level up.
Natural attack have changed in PF. You can have multiple primary natural attacks now, but you cannot get extra natural attacks from having a high BAB. If you use a weapon, you get extra attacks from having a high BAB, but all your natural attacks become secondary attacks.
Also make sure the player is using the right version of the summoner. The final playtest version of the summoner is much more balanced than the original version that was published. The final version is the one that is bundled with the other 5 APG classes. If they have the version that was released with just the Witch, they are using the old version.
| Tarvesh |
The archer in my group just asked me about trying to lay down enough fire to keep an enemy pinned behind cover (not phyically pinning down but keeping them behind the cover so they don't get hit).
This interested me since it is sound tactic. I was thinking of making the ability into a feat, maybe requiring rapid shot and manyshot. It would have to be a full round action and would force a target to make a will save. If the save is failed, the target must spend its next round to move to cover or, if it is already in cover, staying in cover. If it's already in cover it take it's round normally though it cannot leave cover unless it makes the will save. If the archer doesn't continue to fire at the target it's keeping in cover the target no longer needs to make a will savebto move out of it.
| pipakin |
Is an Alchemist's bomb considered a special ability to qualify for Ability Focus on page 314 of the Bestiary? I wouldn't think so but i'd like some input.
I'm generally of the opinion that it shouldn't qualify, but it's up to you as DM. As Char said, the standard rule is players don't get bestiary feats.
For a summoner's pet, how many primary attacks does it get? I'm being told that if an eidalon gets a claw/claw/bite that they can all be primary unless the attack it gets is labeled as a secondary. That seems just a bit op seeing as the eidalon can get three attacks per round by level 4.
Echoing the "use the right version" statement, as the original summoner was very potent and the newer one seems more balanced. But yeah, they do end up with quite a few attacks early on.
| pipakin |
The archer in my group just asked me about trying to lay down enough fire to keep an enemy pinned behind cover (not phyically pinning down but keeping them behind the cover so they don't get hit).
This interested me since it is sound tactic. I was thinking of making the ability into a feat, maybe requiring rapid shot and manyshot. It would have to be a full round action and would force a target to make a will save. If the save is failed, the target must spend its next round to move to cover or, if it is already in cover, staying in cover. If it's already in cover it take it's round normally though it cannot leave cover unless it makes the will save. If the archer doesn't continue to fire at the target it's keeping in cover the target no longer needs to make a will savebto move out of it.
My off the hip and completely unsolicited feat:
Suppressing Fire
Requires: Rapid Shot, Many Shot
As a full round action, you may lay down suppressing fire over a 20 foot area centered around any point within one range increment. Any creature caught in this area must seek cover (at least 20%) or make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or take damage equal to weapon damage. Simply moving out of the area (and not directly to cover) does not prevent the damage.
Suppressing Fire, Greater
Requires: Suppressing Fire
Whenever you make a suppressing fire attack, all enemies within the radius must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or attempt to seek cover and become shaken.
Why make it 2 feats to force the will save, you ask? Controlling opponent's actions on the battlefield is REALLY powerful. And if I had an ability which forced you to stay behind cover you better believe every NPC archer would be doing it to the PCs everytime they could. Combine that with aoe spells like cloudkill and you can force the PCs to stay in a save or die/suck area for multiple turns.
| Charender |
Tarvesh wrote:The archer in my group just asked me about trying to lay down enough fire to keep an enemy pinned behind cover (not phyically pinning down but keeping them behind the cover so they don't get hit).
This interested me since it is sound tactic. I was thinking of making the ability into a feat, maybe requiring rapid shot and manyshot. It would have to be a full round action and would force a target to make a will save. If the save is failed, the target must spend its next round to move to cover or, if it is already in cover, staying in cover. If it's already in cover it take it's round normally though it cannot leave cover unless it makes the will save. If the archer doesn't continue to fire at the target it's keeping in cover the target no longer needs to make a will savebto move out of it.
My off the hip and completely unsolicited feat:
Suppressing Fire
Requires: Rapid Shot, Many Shot
As a full round action, you may lay down suppressing fire over a 20 foot area centered around any point within one range increment. Any creature caught in this area must seek cover (at least 20%) or make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or take damage equal to weapon damage.
Suppressing Fire, Greater
Requires: Suppressing Fire
Whenever you make a suppressing fire attack, all enemies within the radius must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or attempt to seek shelter and become shaken.
This is a decent idea for suppressing fire. Although you might want to change it to a 30ft cone instead of a 20 foot burst.
| Charender |
Tarvesh wrote:The archer in my group just asked me about trying to lay down enough fire to keep an enemy pinned behind cover (not phyically pinning down but keeping them behind the cover so they don't get hit).
This interested me since it is sound tactic. I was thinking of making the ability into a feat, maybe requiring rapid shot and manyshot. It would have to be a full round action and would force a target to make a will save. If the save is failed, the target must spend its next round to move to cover or, if it is already in cover, staying in cover. If it's already in cover it take it's round normally though it cannot leave cover unless it makes the will save. If the archer doesn't continue to fire at the target it's keeping in cover the target no longer needs to make a will savebto move out of it.
My off the hip and completely unsolicited feat:
Suppressing Fire
Requires: Rapid Shot, Many Shot
As a full round action, you may lay down suppressing fire over a 20 foot area centered around any point within one range increment. Any creature caught in this area must seek cover (at least 20%) or make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or take damage equal to weapon damage. Simply moving out of the area (and not directly to cover) does not prevent the damage.
Suppressing Fire, Greater
Requires: Suppressing Fire
Whenever you make a suppressing fire attack, all enemies within the radius must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or attempt to seek cover and become shaken.
Why make it 2 feats to force the will save, you ask? Controlling opponent's actions on the battlefield is REALLY powerful. And if I had an ability which forced you to stay behind cover you better believe every NPC archer would be doing it to the PCs everytime they could. Combine that with aoe spells like cloudkill and you can force the PCs to stay in a save or die/suck area for multiple turns.
Addendum. Make the ability use 8 arrows, since the archer isn't really aiming, just putting as many arrows into the air as possible. One of the big drawbacks of suppressive fire is you burn through ammo fast.
| Tarvesh |
Charender wrote:This is a decent idea for suppressing fire. Although you might want to change it to a 30ft cone instead of a 20 foot burst.Good point. I had envisioned it as a longbowman at range, but yeah, a cone makes way more sense in practical pathfinder combats.
Excellent refinement. The aracher is a longbow user as well so I think this not only give him an extra trick to his arsenal, but also bring him a bit closer to the enemy and let him change up his standard "stay back and shoot that one till it stops moving" tactic he's been getting a bit bored with.
I like to see players rewarded for trying to impliment actual tactics in a typically head down bull rushing environment and I think this will do the trick.
| pipakin |
Excellent refinement. The aracher is a longbow user as well so I think this not only give him an extra trick to his arsenal, but also bring him a bit closer to the enemy and let him change up his standard "stay back and shoot that one till it stops moving" tactic he's been getting a bit bored with.
I like to see players rewarded for trying to impliment actual tactics in a typically head down bull rushing environment and I think this will do the trick.
So quick rewrite (changes in italic). I added the drop prone rule because this could become quite powerful in an environment without cover but with a lot of enemies bunched up.
Suppressing Fire
Requires: Rapid Shot, Many Shot
As a full round action, you may lay down suppressing fire in a 30ft cone. Any creature caught in this area must seek cover (at least 20%) or make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or take damage equal to weapon damage. Simply moving out of the area (and not directly to cover) does not prevent the damage. If no cover is available within 1 round of movement, dropping prone also avoids the damage
Using suppressing fire uses 8 units of ammunition.
Suppressing Fire, Greater
Requires: Suppressing Fire
Whenever you make a suppressing fire attack, all enemies within the radius must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or attempt to seek cover and become shaken.
reminds me of the arcane archers
hail of arrows. that is at eighth level.I think you could look at it.
Also if you have an accane archer how do those feats fit into that?
Good point, though the Hail of Arrows ability is more about hitting multiple targets than forcing them to run for cover.
| KenderKin |
The hail of arrows is 8th level....
SO the cover fire should be of lower level, so taking three or four feats to get there seems a little steep to me.
On the other hand it maybe balanced. The next feat in this new feat tree sounds like it should be hail of arrows.
Rapid shot, many shot, supressing fire & greater, then hail of arrows...
| pipakin |
The hail of arrows is 8th level....
SO the cover fire should be of lower level, so taking three or four feats to get there seems a little steep to me.
On the other hand it maybe balanced. The next feat in this new feat tree sounds like it should be hail of arrows.
Rapid shot, many shot, supressing fire & greater, then hail of arrows...
actually hail of arrows is 15th level minimum. (1 caster level +0 bab, 6 full bab levels, 8 levels of AA)
That being said, I like the idea of Hail of Arrows being a feat. Then you just give it to Arcane Archer as a free bonus feat at level 8. This would end up needing a slight change (the number of attacks couldn't be based off of AA levels).
Soooo, here's my full feat tree. Which I think I'll use in my game:
Suppressing Fire
Requires: Rapid Shot, Many Shot
As a full round action, you may lay down suppressing fire in a 30ft cone. Any creature caught in this area must seek cover (at least 20%) or make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or take damage equal to weapon damage. Simply moving out of the area (and not directly to cover) does not prevent the damage. If no cover is available within 1 round of movement, dropping prone also avoids the damage
Using suppressing fire uses 8 units of ammunition.
Suppressing Fire, Greater
Requires: Suppressing Fire
Whenever you make a suppressing fire attack, all enemies within the radius must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or attempt to seek cover and become shaken.
Hail of Arrows
Requires: Suppressing Fire, Greater and Character Level 15
In lieu of your regular attacks, once per day an you can fire at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target per 2 character levels. Each attack uses your primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single attack.
| Tarvesh |
We ended last night's session on a very interesting note. An enemy assassin left a sword in the shoulder of a party member so he could go after someone else. The groups fighter sundered said weapon instead pulling it out. The blade was left in the pc's shoulder.
The next round another assassin decided to hammer down on the blade on each side (the blade was sticking out the front and back of his shoulder). I decided to make the attack do 1/2 weapon damage, and gave it a con bleed since the blade nearly severed the pc's arm).
The group, even the player on the receiving end of the attack, loved the use of the blade and the attack (even the way damage was handled). My question is, did I handle it appropriately? The players may have loved it, but I'm wondering if ianyone else here had any other ideas on how I could have handled it.
| pipakin |
We ended last night's session on a very interesting note. An enemy assassin left a sword in the shoulder of a party member so he could go after someone else. The groups fighter sundered said weapon instead pulling it out. The blade was left in the pc's shoulder.
The next round another assassin decided to hammer down on the blade on each side (the blade was sticking out the front and back of his shoulder). I decided to make the attack do 1/2 weapon damage, and gave it a con bleed since the blade nearly severed the pc's arm).
The group, even the player on the receiving end of the attack, loved the use of the blade and the attack (even the way damage was handled). My question is, did I handle it appropriately? The players may have loved it, but I'm wondering if ianyone else here had any other ideas on how I could have handled it.
I like it, in general ability damage is REALLY powerful though.
| Charender |
We ended last night's session on a very interesting note. An enemy assassin left a sword in the shoulder of a party member so he could go after someone else. The groups fighter sundered said weapon instead pulling it out. The blade was left in the pc's shoulder.
The next round another assassin decided to hammer down on the blade on each side (the blade was sticking out the front and back of his shoulder). I decided to make the attack do 1/2 weapon damage, and gave it a con bleed since the blade nearly severed the pc's arm).
The group, even the player on the receiving end of the attack, loved the use of the blade and the attack (even the way damage was handled). My question is, did I handle it appropriately? The players may have loved it, but I'm wondering if ianyone else here had any other ideas on how I could have handled it.
Short answer, if you and your players are having fun, then you are doing it right.
| Evil Lincoln |
2: Sundering a weapon of armor piece is something I can understand. However, when character want to target a specific body part, knees, hands, left shoulder, etc what would the increase in difficulty become to hit the specific point?
Called shots were deliberately omitted from the rules for a variety of reasons, but I sometimes usethis method to adjudicate special situations:
Decide on a "Size" for the target area, for example a human leg is "Small" and a human eyeball is "diminutive", then use the new size modifier in place of the old one. Then, depending on the location on the body, you decide if a miss will hit the creature still if it scores above the old AC.
That always sorts out to be a penalty, but you really must be careful about letting the players apply this in every combat or it gets out of hand.
| Ravingdork |
Tarvesh wrote:Short answer, if you and your players are having fun, then you are doing it right.We ended last night's session on a very interesting note. An enemy assassin left a sword in the shoulder of a party member so he could go after someone else. The groups fighter sundered said weapon instead pulling it out. The blade was left in the pc's shoulder.
The next round another assassin decided to hammer down on the blade on each side (the blade was sticking out the front and back of his shoulder). I decided to make the attack do 1/2 weapon damage, and gave it a con bleed since the blade nearly severed the pc's arm).
The group, even the player on the receiving end of the attack, loved the use of the blade and the attack (even the way damage was handled). My question is, did I handle it appropriately? The players may have loved it, but I'm wondering if ianyone else here had any other ideas on how I could have handled it.
True, just don't be surprised if your players start stabbing their enemies with cheap short swords and leaving them in there, while another party member hammers it in for bleed damage and other penalties.
| meatrace |
The houserule I use for "called shot" is -8 to attack roll, double critical range. The idea being that a specific vital body part (eye, crotch, etc.) is smaller than the base creature on generally the same scale, so use the size modifier system. Normal rules for doubled doubling, i.e. someone using a keen falchion to make a called shot to someone's knee would get a -8 to attack but for that attack have a 12-20 crit range.
| Charender |
Charender wrote:True, just don't be surprised if your players start stabbing their enemies with cheap short swords and leaving them in there, while another party member hammers it in for bleed damage and other penalties.Tarvesh wrote:Short answer, if you and your players are having fun, then you are doing it right.We ended last night's session on a very interesting note. An enemy assassin left a sword in the shoulder of a party member so he could go after someone else. The groups fighter sundered said weapon instead pulling it out. The blade was left in the pc's shoulder.
The next round another assassin decided to hammer down on the blade on each side (the blade was sticking out the front and back of his shoulder). I decided to make the attack do 1/2 weapon damage, and gave it a con bleed since the blade nearly severed the pc's arm).
The group, even the player on the receiving end of the attack, loved the use of the blade and the attack (even the way damage was handled). My question is, did I handle it appropriately? The players may have loved it, but I'm wondering if ianyone else here had any other ideas on how I could have handled it.
That is why the occasional exception spices up the game, but exceptions should not be made into standard rules.