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Firing a ranged weapon provokes. See the table here.
Without the feat both loading and firing provoked, with the feat just firing provokes.
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Firing a ranged weapon provokes. See the table here.
Without the feat both loading and firing provoked, with the feat just firing provokes.
I concur.
Now, according to the description, you can fire in melee without provoking an AoO. However according to the benefit paragraph you don't provoke when you reload your crossbow. Does this imply that the action of reloading is what provokes (and not the action of firing in melee itself)? Table 8-2 on page 183 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook states that an Attack(ranged) provokes an AoO. So which one is it?
The answer? Without the feats" Both.
If you are in combat with an opponent with Combat Reflexes, he would get an attack when you fired, *and* one when you reloaded.
Your feat lets you reload without the AoO, so you only face the one for taking the shot.
It's the same deal with a spellcaster casting a ranged touch spell in melee (think of this feat as the crossbow equivalent of casting defensively). Without casting defensively, ge provokes an attack for casting the spell, and assuming he doesn't get nailed and lose the spell for damage, the act of firing into melee provokes *again*. Same deal.
Edit: Elaborated.
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I can understand the reasoning of what you are saying. However my DM is a stickler for rules and he feels that if it does not say it in the benefit part of the text for the feat then it does not work.
It does say in the feat: "Reloading a crossbow for the type of crossbow you chose when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of opportunity." So whenever you reload your crossbow, you don't provoke attacks of opportunity.
It makes no sense to have a feat that would help you avoid AoO when you load and not when you fire. Clearly if I'm going to fire and I don't wish to provoke I would load when I wasn't in melee as well.
The benefit of not provoking when you reload is only a minor benefit of this feat. The heart of this feat is that it allows you to reload a crossbow as a free action, allowing you to execute a full attack and use all your attacks with your crossbow of choice. But you're right, there's no reason to fire/reload in melee since you'd still provoke when you fire.
Is there any specific errata for this feat or something that says that the description of the feat is as valid as the benefit part? In other words as a DM or player if a feat said in the description you get a +5 to your movement but it didn't mention any increase in movement in the benefit part, could we rule that it gives a +5 to your speed?
I rarely ever even pay attention to the description of the feat, as that flavor text usually has no relevance in the actual mechanics of the feat. And regarding your example, I don't think there are feats that have "+5 to movement" or anything similar to that in the description/flavor text; that kind of wording would be found in the benefits part of the feat.
Bumping this (and FAQ-flagging it) because I don't think it got the attention it deserves.
The crunch exists to make the fluff concrete. When a description clearly doesn't match the associated mechanics, I'm going to question them both, not just toss the description.
Is Crossbow Mastery an old feat? Or am I mistaken?
It was an old Pathfinder 3.5 feat, however it has been copied word for word into the Advanced Players Guide (page 157).
If you want to avoid AoO for firing the crossbow in melee as well, there's another feat in the APG called Point Blank Master that allows exactly that for one ranged weapon, though it's only available to fighters (weapon specialization is a prerequisite) and archery rangers (who can take it as a combat style feat).
It sucks cause, a crossbow ranger can't get point-blank master
so if you want to be a crossbow ranger and not provoke you need to archery fighting style which is dumb
If you are a ranger that wants to do ranged combat why didn't you pick archery as your combat style? it doesn't matter what type of ranged weapon you plan on using, the archery combat style is the way to go.
I think that it's pretty clear to everyone that the crossbow style is worse than the archery style and IMO the only reason it exists is to limit an archetype's power by limiting it to that combat style.
It sucks cause, a crossbow ranger can't get point-blank master
so if you want to be a crossbow ranger and not provoke you need to archery fighting style which is dumb
Why is that dumb? You get the same benefits of the feat chain whether you're using a bow or a crossbow.
It sucks cause, a crossbow ranger can't get point-blank master
so if you want to be a crossbow ranger and not provoke you need to archery fighting style which is dumb
Why is that dumb? You get the same benefits of the feat chain whether you're using a bow or a crossbow.
He is talking about the crossbow combat style and not the archery combat style.
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The question I have re: the ranger issue, is why not just take the Archery Combat Style and apply it to crossbows? All the relevant feats listed in the APG indicate that they apply to Rangers with the Archery Combat Style (including Crossbow Mastery). None indicate the Crossbow Combat Style in the feat descriptions.
Additionally, the ranger write up for the ACS does not state that it requires use of a short or longbow, so a case could be made it should apply to crossbows as well (especially since the iconic is hefting around a heavy crossbow). Add into that the availability of Crossbow Mastery to a Ranger with the ACS and the argument gets teeth.
Just my 2 cp.
Deadly Aim and Rapid Reload can be taken as bonus Feats by Rangers with the Crossbow fighting style, but not the Archery style - it's just a (slightly) different selection of Feats to choose from.
IRRC those are the only feats that an archery combat style ranger can't select as bonus feats, know what you select them with your normal feats.
There are worse combat styles than crossbow.
Which one?
Which one?Two-handed.
Yes you are right, so crossbow comes second.
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He is talking about the crossbow combat style and not the archery combat style.It sucks cause, a crossbow ranger can't get point-blank master
so if you want to be a crossbow ranger and not provoke you need to archery fighting style which is dumb
Why is that dumb? You get the same benefits of the feat chain whether you're using a bow or a crossbow.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the crossbow combat style either... so I use the archery one if I'm going to use a crossbow.