The best 1st level characters starts with getting lucky and rolling at least four "18"s in a row in front of witnesses. You put an 18 each of Str,Dex, Con, and then decide if you want to be a spellcaster, then put the last 18 into the approprate ability score for castign those spells or into Int if you want a lot of skills and no magic.
Then you luck out again and roll the maximum GP for your class.
That way you can be a fighter or cleric with decent armor, or a Wizard that can scribe some friggin scrolls for back-up.
Then since your'e on a roll...literally...you will have enough scores and gears to be any race. You can pick the elf you normally avoid because the --2 to con makes them wimpy.
You can now rock on with an elven wizard who is a decent combantant at 1st because of your high str/dex/con and Paizo being smart enough to give a wizard d6 HD instead of d4's. Your touch spells will be great due to said scores, and since you have proficiency with a longbow as an elf, you spend the money to get a masterwork longbow. Since you have a 16 con, you skip taking tough for your default feat and do something kinky like light armor proficiency, then wear armor that has only a 5% penalty so you only screw up spells rarely.
Hi all i was wondering what are in your opinion the best character builds from first level and would any of you be kind enough to explain what makes it work. I am still new to pathfinder and am trying to get my head around the best choices available.
I do not mind what character you build im interested in the detail around feats build and next steps.Many thanks
Many times what is best depends on playstyle, and what you are trying to accomplish. It also depends on your DM runs his/her games.
And yet perception is one of the most important skills to take, allong with accrobatics. Neither of which are on the Fighter's skill list, so they take skills like handle animal that will be much less useful. And since they have so few skill points, they are less likely to look at the large list of skills.You mean like the Survival, Knowledge (dungeoneering), and Handle Animal that are on the Fighter skill list? In fact, that kind of tilts the board the Fighter's way if you look at it using that argument because the fighter does NOT have some of the major skills on their list: Perception, Search, or Spot that would siphon skill points from the Ranger.
No, the fighter can do those things too. But new players are unlikely to put skills into things not on their class list.
Not only is that contrary to two of your previous arguments, but it's nonsensical. Acrobatics is one of the most important skills? Really? Let's all not take Ranger then.
Besides, what do you say to the fighter that took Improved Initiative because he noticed his Init bonus was only +1?
The same thing you say to the Rogue/Wizard/Ranger/Sorcerer/Druid/Cleric/Barbarian that does it?
Or Intimidating Prowess because they want to threaten better?
"Take Dazzling Display/Weapon Focus/Shatter Defenses with one of your next feats."?
It's not like these are BAD choices, just not very GOOD ones. Doing this hurts some classes more than others, and Fighter is hurt more than Ranger.
How so? It's not burning their regular feats and all their other class abilities are constant.
Having such leeway to choose your class abilities increases the chance that you will choose poorly. This is not the case with some other classes.
But unlike other classes which got a number of "choices" added into them, you get a new choice every other level. You arn't stuck with the results of your previous choice except maybe not meeting pre-reqs for some other feat. And you can retrain a feat every 4 levels.
And you think a fighter taking Improved Initiative is the same as a Wizard/Sorcerer/Druid/Cleric taking it?
Why wouldn't it be the same? Should Fighters not want to go sooner? Maybe it's worse because it doesn't hurt their normal selection of feats and they still have a feat they can pick.
Not only is that contrary to two of your previous arguments, but it's nonsensical. Acrobatics is one of the most important skills? Really? Let's all not take Ranger then.And yet perception is one of the most important skills to take, allong with accrobatics. Neither of which are on the Fighter's skill list, so they take skills like handle animal that will be much less useful. And since they have so few skill points, they are less likely to look at the large list of skills.You mean like the Survival, Knowledge (dungeoneering), and Handle Animal that are on the Fighter skill list? In fact, that kind of tilts the board the Fighter's way if you look at it using that argument because the fighter does NOT have some of the major skills on their list: Perception, Search, or Spot that would siphon skill points from the Ranger.
No, the fighter can do those things too. But new players are unlikely to put skills into things not on their class list.
Perhaps you should re-read my posts, because obviously you are not understanding what I am saying if you think I am contradicting myself.
Having such leeway to choose your class abilities increases the chance that you will choose poorly. This is not the case with some other classes.But unlike other classes which got a number of "choices" added into them, you get a new choice every other level. You arn't stuck with the results of your previous choice except maybe not meeting pre-reqs for some other feat. And you can retrain a feat every 4 levels.
And you think a fighter taking Improved Initiative is the same as a Wizard/Sorcerer/Druid/Cleric taking it?Why wouldn't it be the same? Should Fighters not want to go sooner? Maybe it's worse because it doesn't hurt their normal selection of feats and they still have a feat they can pick.
A caster still has spells if he chooses a bad feat. A single bad feat wont ruin a caster, and will likely go unnoticed. A single bad feat for a low level fighter can haunt them for a long time, and they might not even notice that there was a much better choice.
Perhaps you should re-read my posts, because obviously you are not understanding what I am saying if you think I am contradicting myself.
Well your first post listed things a Ranger can do out of combat that a Fighter can't. Then I countered the Fighter can do the same things, with skills on its skill list no less.
Your retort revolved around saying the Fighter is worse because new players wouldn't pick things outside the Fighter's narrow skill list. That point is where I pointed out that all those previous things were on the Fighter's skill list.
Then you go on to complain about the Fighter because it doesn't have two skills on its skill list - one of which isn't on the Ranger's either. And you chastise the newbie player Fighter putting points in Handle Animal. After you made the point that that is specifically one of the things that the Ranger could do out of combat in contrast to the Fighter.
A caster still has spells if he chooses a bad feat. A single bad feat wont ruin a caster, and will likely go unnoticed. A single bad feat for a low level fighter can haunt them for a long time, and they might not even notice that there was a much better choice.
1) A Fighter who choose a bad feat is only using up 1 feat. Either one that get every other character level or one they get every other class level. They are getting at least 1 to 2 more feats than a Wizard is in the same amount of time. 1 "bad" feat choice will barely hurt them, if it hurts them at all. And since spells don't really have anything to do with feats, the counter that they have spells still isn't much of a counter.
2) A bad feat choice can haunt a low level Fighter for a long time. Or at least until level 4.
The best 1st level character is the one you really want to play and enjoy playing.
Has it really come to this with the game...
Perhaps you should re-read my posts, because obviously you are not understanding what I am saying if you think I am contradicting myself.Well your first post listed things a Ranger can do out of combat that a Fighter can't. Then I countered the Fighter can do the same things, with skills on its skill list no less.
Your retort revolved around saying the Fighter is worse because new players wouldn't pick things outside the Fighter's narrow skill list. That point is where I pointed out that all those previous things were on the Fighter's skill list.
Then you go on to complain about the Fighter because it doesn't have two skills on its skill list - one of which isn't on the Ranger's either. And you chastise the newbie player Fighter putting points in Handle Animal. After you made the point that that is specifically one of the things that the Ranger could do out of combat in contrast to the Fighter.
Perhaps you should look at the point where I said the Ranger has 6 skill points, and so he can afford to diversify and take many skills. The Fighter only gets 2, so those that he has are very valuable. 1 skill point for the Ranger in Handle Animal is not a waste, while for the fighter it really can be.
The Fighter also has a smaller selection of skills.
But you can't give the same example as both a positive and a negative action just because the class performing it is different.
A caster still has spells if he chooses a bad feat. A single bad feat wont ruin a caster, and will likely go unnoticed. A single bad feat for a low level fighter can haunt them for a long time, and they might not even notice that there was a much better choice.1) A Fighter who choose a bad feat is only using up 1 feat. Either one that get every other character level or one they get every other class level. They are getting at least 1 to 2 more feats than a Wizard is in the same amount of time. 1 "bad" feat choice will barely hurt them, if it hurts them at all. And since spells don't really have anything to do with feats, the counter that they have spells still isn't much of a counter.
2) A bad feat choice can haunt a low level Fighter for a long time. Or at least until level 4.
The point is that the Fighter's ENTIRE CLASS ABILITY is feats. Therefore, a feat that does them nothing is the same as losing all class abilities for a level. In the case of wizards, it would be like not being able to use a levels worth of spell slots. Later, it doesn't matter as much. Early on though it is critical that you choose the right feats or you will see your character being blown away.
The Fighter also has a smaller selection of skills.
But you can't give the same example as both a positive and a negative action just because the class performing it is different.
Yes I can, because the opportunity cost is different. 1/6 != 1/2
You mean like the Survival, Knowledge (dungeoneering), and Handle Animal that are on the Fighter skill list? In fact, that kind of tilts the board the Fighter's way if you look at it using that argument because the fighter does NOT have some of the major skills on their list: Perception, Search, or Spot that would siphon skill points from the Ranger.
No, the fighter can do those things too. But new players are unlikely to put skills into things not on their class list.
Fighters are fighting machines. Yes they could do Survival, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Handle Animal and a few others. But if they can do more than 2 well, then they are taking points away from other abilities to put them into Intelligence.
A ranger can do all of those skills and many more and do them very well. Noone is better at survival if the ranger wants to be top dog. The ranger perceives trouble where as the fighter walks into it blindly. My ranger is stated out and happened to have an extra point in Intelligence (using the PFS point buy) so he could have seven skills he is excellent at. I chose: Handle Animal, Knowledge(Dungeoneering, Geography, Nature & Religion), Perceive, Stealth and Survival. Skill points were split between Stealth and Kn(Rel) but he still has great rolls in those areas. I also chose a trait that give a +1 to Kn(Rel) and makes it a class skill--I go after undead a lot.
The point is that the ranger can do combat well, very very well against a few enemies, and do other things for the party as well. It's not just a one trick pony. I don't remember a fighter in an organized play group that did anything else well but fight.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thougths
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The best 1st level characters starts with getting lucky and rolling at least four "18"s in a row in front of witnesses. You put an 18 each of Str,Dex, Con, and then decide if you want to be a spellcaster, then put the last 18 into the approprate ability score for castign those spells or into Int if you want a lot of skills and no magic.
Then you luck out again and roll the maximum GP for your class.
That way you can be a fighter or cleric with decent armor, or a Wizard that can scribe some friggin scrolls for back-up.
Then since your'e on a roll...literally...you will have enough scores and gears to be any race. You can pick the elf you normally avoid because the --2 to con makes them wimpy.
You can now rock on with an elven wizard who is a decent combantant at 1st because of your high str/dex/con and Paizo being smart enough to give a wizard d6 HD instead of d4's. Your touch spells will be great due to said scores, and since you have proficiency with a longbow as an elf, you spend the money to get a masterwork longbow. Since you have a 16 con, you skip taking tough for your default feat and do something kinky like light armor proficiency, then wear armor that has only a 5% penalty so you only screw up spells rarely.
Ahh see you failed, you had me, but then you wasted a feat on Armor proficiency to wear armor with a 5% ASF penalty. You don't need to be proficient to wear armor. And the only armors with a 5% ASF have a 0 Check penalty, so if you're non proficient you loose absolutely nothing wearing it anyways, You'd be better off wearing Armor with a 10% ASF and taking spell focus for impossible saves. In fact the only reason to take AP light is if you're going for Arcane armor training and are going to wear an armor with a 10-15% ASF in which case go human for 1st level and get both feats.
Sorry, you loose, feel free to play again later.
Darn, caught me....but you gotta admit, the thing people forget about is the random factors. I once made a gnome (3.5 D&D) who started with 5 solid 18 scores, and a one 15 that I put into con making it 17...then made 18 at 4th level. Itty bitty bad ass. He got max gold too and I made him a knight (fighter)mounted on a riding dog. He could make a mountd charge in a dungeon. By the time I got him to 6th level he was a mean mo-fo eventually made into a Spellwsword (Complete Warrior).....a spirited charge with greater invisiblity is Awsome!
Anyway the point is, don't forget the rolling.
And my elf example should have something truly worthwile for 1st feat...I did say armor prof was kinky...What would you pick?
For that matter, if our player rolled a bunch of 18's what would you recommend to take advantage of that luck?
We can haggle all day assuming someone had average rolls or did a point build, but what about that one lucky build?
I seem to remember that Monte Cook named his company Malahvoic after a character he had that was chock full of high rolls.
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Darn, caught me....but you gotta admit, the thing people forget about is the random factors. I once made a gnome (3.5 D&D) who started with 5 solid 18 scores, and a one 15 that I put into con making it 17...then made 18 at 4th level. Itty bitty bad ass. He got max gold too and I made him a knight (fighter)mounted on a riding dog. He could make a mountd charge in a dungeon. By the time I got him to 6th level he was a mean mo-fo eventually made into a Spellwsword (Complete Warrior).....a spirited charge with greater invisiblity is Awsome!
Anyway the point is, don't forget the rolling.
And my elf example should have something truly worthwile for 1st feat...I did say armor prof was kinky...What would you pick?
For that matter, if our player rolled a bunch of 18's what would you recommend to take advantage of that luck?
We can haggle all day assuming someone had average rolls or did a point build, but what about that one lucky build?
I seem to remember that Monte Cook named his company Malahvoic after a character he had that was chock full of high rolls.
I've never seen a person roll more than two 18s when his rolls were actually witnessed. However I've had a person swear to me when his rolls weren't witnessed that he rolled no stat below 15 including 3 18s and then get pissed when I made him roll witnessed rolls and he didn't roll a single 18. I'm not saying it's never happened, or doesn't ever happen. I've just never actually seen it.
On the topic of lucky/unlucky rolls: In a roleplaying group I was active in, we started of with a fat RP weekend. So, one guy gets a pair of old, yellow d20's. After an hour of gaming, he complains over lousy dice, but we all think it's just his luck. After another 3 hours, he still hasn't rolled high a single time - he changes dice, and immediately gets better results. When another player accidently uses them a few times, he also gets lousy results - and inspects the dice. And they are only numbered 1-10. So they are d10s, on 20-sided dice.
I'd agree with the posters who say playing a fighter was difficult in 3.5. PF adds a number of mechanics in that make things easier -- in fact, I'd say playing a fighter is no more difficult than playing a barbarian now.
The biggest help is the bonus feat changeups:
This is a huge bonus for a fighter. This ability lets you correct previous feat mistakes with effectively a better feat. This can help new fighters "undo" a feat mistake.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Let me define the parameters 25 point buy only from core book
This will be a military campaign but there will be a lot of choice for the players in what direction they can go.
I guess it will clearly be action driven
Also the main enemy will be the dragon spawn that tiamats blood creatures...
Ah, so you're playing
In that case, ranger for a good mix of combat and out of combat capabilities. Go archery because anything involving dragons involves flying badguys. FE: dragons. Or go paladin for combat, healing, and evil dragon smiting.
All 1st-level characters I've ever made were the best 1st-level characters. They were all best at being themselves.
Sorcerer [Chuck Norris Bloodline]
Once as GM, I decided to have the players roll 1d8+10 for each ability score. That way the minimum anyone would roll is 11 and the max would still be 18...had one player roll 13,12,11,11,11 and 9 after =2 to dex,
-2 to con, (he was an elf). I allowed a re-roll. He roll all 15's.
Random is random dude.
Still, what do you play when you have great ones? And what do you play when you have crappy ones/ I tried creating a simple human fighter once and rolled so bad after getting to re-roll him 3 times in a row, the GM told me to just point build.
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I've never seen a person roll more than two 18s when his rolls were actually witnessed. However I've had a person swear to me when his rolls weren't witnessed that he rolled no stat below 15 including 3 18s and then get pissed when I made him roll witnessed rolls and he didn't roll a single 18. I'm not saying it's never happened, or doesn't ever happen. I've just never actually seen it.So, one session at character creation, my wife "borrowed" my favorite dice and rolled:
18, 17, 17, 16, 15, 15
I rolled, using the same dice:
14, 13, 13, 12, 9, 8
Lady Luck is a fickle woman, to be sure.
oh i've seen good rolls similar to that, just not god like multiple 18s
oh i've seen good rolls similar to that, just not god like multiple 18sI've never seen a person roll more than two 18s when his rolls were actually witnessed. However I've had a person swear to me when his rolls weren't witnessed that he rolled no stat below 15 including 3 18s and then get pissed when I made him roll witnessed rolls and he didn't roll a single 18. I'm not saying it's never happened, or doesn't ever happen. I've just never actually seen it.So, one session at character creation, my wife "borrowed" my favorite dice and rolled:
18, 17, 17, 16, 15, 15
I rolled, using the same dice:
14, 13, 13, 12, 9, 8
Lady Luck is a fickle woman, to be sure.
Best roll I've ever seen back in AD&D times - 3d6 straight - 4x18's, 2x17's. I would have thought the dice were loaded except we all used the same set to roll. The DM (one of those killers who liked to exploit character weaknesses like they were going out of style) was livid. He made him fully re-roll a 17 because the final die was slightly cocked. His re-roll was the 4th 18.
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Let me define the parameters 25 point buy only from core bookDirect an to the point:
Human Barbarian
Str 18 Dex 13 Con 19 Int 7 Wis 10 Cha 7
Hit Points 12 +4 (Con) +1 (favored class) = 17
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave
Armed with Great Sword, have a few javelins in case you can't charge immediately.
Armor is a Chain ShirtJust rage and you're attack is:
+1 BAB, +6 Str, -1 (power attack) = +6 and Damage is 2d6 +9(str) +2(PA)= 2d6+11
Just pound away until things are mush.
At 4th level put the attribute point into Con and you suddenly get +4 more hit points.
Actually the damage is 2d6 + 9 (str) + 3 (PA) = 2d6 + 12 since you are attacking with a 2-handed weapon.
I used to play with a guy that had phenomenal luck at rolling. Rarely would a d6 roll less than a 5 for him . . . while the rest of us would roll normally on the same dice. I will say that it was painful when he DMed. If he crit then your character was likely dead. Had a 3.0 Whip wielding Forsaker PrC that bit the dust first combat it was in, exploding Rhemorhaz I think it was (or whichever worm/insect-like critter explodes), max damage.
Craziest thing though happened when he was a PC. Wanted to do something crazy, can't even remember what it was, but the DM said he could get away with it if he rolled an 84 on a percentile. He did. Later the same night, he wanted to do something else just as crazy. DM asked for another 84 and he rolled the darned thing.
The DM cried . . .
I have seen a natural 20 *thrice* in a row by one player. Ended a BBEG pretty fast.
As a GM while playing Rolemaster in the good old days, my attack was a 99 on percentile; everybody was rolling eyes when I said overconfidently, that they should wait for the next roll... which was a natural 100 on the crit table. good times :)
I have seen a natural 20 *thrice* in a row by one player. Ended a BBEG pretty fast.
As a GM while playing Rolemaster in the good old days, my attack was a 99 on percentile; everybody was rolling eyes when I said overconfidently, that they should wait for the next roll... which was a natural 100 on the crit table. good times :)
Against a Vampire, our bow user wanted to break the tip off his arrow and shoot it through the heart from down a 100 ft corridor filled with zombies. The DM told if he rolls 3 20s in a row, he can make the shot. 1 staked vampire later, it was zombie killing time.
Why break the tip off the arrow? It's a pointy shaft or a slightly less pointy shaft.