Can a 'Pearl of Power' allow you to recast a spell lower than what it was made for?

[harmor]

For example: A 3rd Level `Pearl of Power` used for a 2nd-level spell instead of a 3rd?

[Fergie]

While my initial reaction was, "sure, why not"?

The official wording of the item is:
"The spell must be of a particular level, depending on the pearl."

So, a spell of that level only.

I guess you could heighten or otherwise meta-magic-up a 2nd level spell into a third level spell, then use a 3rd level pearl.

[Mark Moreland]

I don't see why not, despite the word "must" in the RAW. You can, after all, prepare a lower level spell in a higher level spot without metamagic (and cast it at its original level) or expend a higher level slot for a lower level spell as a spontaneous caster.

[Majuba]

Regardless of metamagic or use of higher slots, you can't recall a regular 2nd level spell in a 2nd level slot with a Pearl of Power (3rd).

[Gilfalas]

Majuba wrote:

Regardless of metamagic or use of higher slots, you can't recall a regular 2nd level spell in a 2nd level slot with a Pearl of Power (3rd).

Actually Heightened Spells are an exeption. Unlike all other metamagic spells they ARE treated as a spell of the level of the slot used to cast them.

So if you Heighten Hold Person to say 7th level and had a 7th level Pearl of Power then YES you can get that Hold Person spell back, but not a regular, non heightened one.

[cwslyclgh]

harmor wrote:

For example: A 3rd Level `Pearl of Power` used for a 2nd-level spell instead of a 3rd?

from a strict RAW stand point you couldn't do that. that said I see little room for abuse, and would allow somebody to do that in my game.

[Krome]

cwslyclgh wrote:

harmor wrote:

For example: A 3rd Level `Pearl of Power` used for a 2nd-level spell instead of a 3rd?

from a strict RAW stand point you couldn't do that. that said I see little room for abuse, and would allow somebody to do that in my game.

As cwslyclgh (where DID you get that name?) said the strict RAW is a no.

There are two places where this starts to cause concern if allowed.

1) If a 3rd level Pearl allows a 2nd level spell to be returned, and since it has a level "left over," can't it also allow a 2nd level AND a 1st level spell to be returned? This begins to get out of hand, especially at higher level Pearls.

2) If a higher level Pearl can recall lower level spells, why can't lower level Pearls be grouped together to recall higher level spells? This would allow a PC to get nine 1st level Pearls for 9,000gp and recall a 9th level spell which normally would require a Pearl costing 70,000gp.

IF you deal with these two areas of power creep and abuse first, then I would allow it. I am sure there are other similar areas for abuse that can be figured out, but I have seen these two before and am sure they will come up in your game if you aren't careful.

[cwslyclgh]

for those two questions I'd deal with them simply enough... I'd just say NO.

As for my name... C. Wesley Clough take away the vowels.

[Krome]

cwslyclgh wrote:

for those two questions I'd deal with them simply enough... I'd just say NO.

As for my name... C. Wesley Clough take away the vowels.

I agree I would say no as well. Better to deal with it up front though before they get an idea in their sneaky PC brains! lol

Okay name makes sense now! :)

[yoda8myhead]

If you treat the pearls as extra spell slots, you avoid some of the loopholes Krome mentions. You can't for example use a 3rd level spell slot to prepare a 1st and 2nd level spell. But you can sacrifice a 3rd level slot to prepare either an additional spell of 1st or 2nd level. Likewise, you can't not prepare a 1st and 2nd level spell and get an extra 3rd level slot.

Any PC trying to pull either of those with their character or a pearl of power should be branded a cheese weasel across their forehead and sent home without their dice. But since you can use higher level slots that you actually possess to cast lower level spells, I still don't see what's unbalancing in allowing the same with a pearl. If I spend the money for a 3rd level pearl and I use it to get another magic missile, that's one less fireball I get. Where's the problem there?

[LazarX]

harmor wrote:

For example: A 3rd Level `Pearl of Power` used for a 2nd-level spell instead of a 3rd?

The Pearl of Power recharges specifically a spell slot of the level which it was made to do. So it could bring that spell back ONLY if it had been cast from a third level slot...i.e. Stilled, Silent, Heightened, etc.

[Rezdave]

Majuba wrote:

Regardless of metamagic or use of higher slots, you can't recall a regular 2nd level spell in a 2nd level slot with a Pearl of Power (3rd).

AND

LazarX wrote:

The Pearl of Power recharges specifically a spell slot of the level which it was made to do. So it could bring that spell back ONLY if it had been cast from a third level slot...i.e. Stilled, Silent, Heightened, etc.

Or simply not even meta-magicked, but simply cast through that slot.

No, you can't use a PoP(3) to recast a spell cast in a 2nd level slot, but the question becomes can you use it to recast a 2nd level spell prepared in a 3rd level slot w/o meta-magic or anything else.

For example, the PCs are in a non-combat, urban, RP-oriented murder-mystery scenario, so the party Wizard makes heavy use of detect thoughts ... such heavy use, in fact, that she is routinely preparing DTs into higher-level slots just so that she has plenty of them available for the party's investigations.

Now, there is no meta-magic applied to the spell (duh, Heighten would be obvious if she had it, but for the sake of this example let's assume the game is otherwise RAW and she doesn't, 'cause I know a lot of people Bonus/Auto it) but rather just plain old lower level spells cast through higher level slots.

Can she now gain yet an extra casting of DT via her PoP(3)?

I'd say yes, since the PoP is keyed to slots.

FWIW,

R.

P.S. I don't see that allowing PoPs to recall spells of lower-level slots is inherently unbalancing in any way, so long as you throw away all remainders to avoid the scenario Krome suggests. Don't know that I'd allow it, though. In fact, I had an NPC villain with a trio of PoPs topping his personal staff in the last story-arc.

[LazarX]

Rezdave wrote:

P.S. I don't see that allowing PoPs to recall spells of lower-level slots is inherently unbalancing in any way, so long as you throw away all remainders to avoid the scenario Krome suggests. Don't know that I'd allow it, though. In fact, I had an NPC villain with a trio of PoPs topping his personal staff in the last story-arc.

You absolutely must must be strict in rules regarding magic in this game. I'm generally flexible as a DM, but I find that if you're not strict in rules interpretation when it comes to magic, consistency goes out the window, and players tend to jam whatever power creep they can get away with.