Under PF rules, now that base classes gain new abilities every level or so, and prestige classes are not as must anymore but merely an option amidst other.
In this light, what do you think of the Harrower prestige class from the campaing setting? Harrowing rules seem like a lot of fun, and a class based on it very interesting. But would it be worth it, or would the sacrifices of dropping the base class to great for the benefits of that particular prestige class?
Also, wich base class do you think would fit best as an Harrower? Flavor-wise, I was thinking, Wizard, Bard or Summoner (love the Harrow/Summon flavor combination), but mechanically it seems like the Summoner has way too much too lose, so it would leave only the Wizard and Bard (possibly the Sorcerer too.)
I guess Oracle/Harrower would also be a great fit flavor-wise, but am afraid it would lose too much in the deal, just like the Summoner. Any toughts?
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It's fun, but it's not very strong. I play a Bard/Harrower (with Perform: Fortunetelling as her main performance skill), but we had to house-rule a feat that let Bard and Harrower levels stack for the purpose of bardic performance rounds per day and inspire courage in order for it to be the least bit viable a combination.
I strongly recommend making the Harrow Casting class feature infinite uses per day. It very rarely comes up with anything terribly useful, so limiting it to just a handful of times per day is just over the top.
My assessment was that it's basically two mildly interesting abilities (Blessing of the Harrow & Harrowcasting) spread over ten levels, with a couple of other random bits tossed in as well (Ooh...you can shoot ghost cards at people!).
I wasn't terribly impressed. Maybe you could lobby your DM to turn those abilities into feats.
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My only suggestion would be this: Don't feel compelled to turn every prestige class into a 10 level class by padding it with abilities. There's nothing wrong with having a 5 level (or even 3 level) prestige class.
The class will be updated for the upcoming revision to the PCCS. Any other observations from folks who've played a harrower before? Things that worked well? Things that didn't?
Wow, That's great news! I'm really looking foward to this! By the way, think you could review the deck itself too? Not by much, maybe just have that god-forsaken Yugi-Oh looking card back changed to something more.. fitting? Like a generic tarot-like back? I for one would buy a second deck without hesitation!
The class will be updated for the upcoming revision to the PCCS. Any other observations from folks who've played a harrower before? Things that worked well? Things that didn't?
EDIT: hogarth's right, too. This class would work well as a 5 level class with a little elbow grease.
Witch/Harrower seemed like an interesting combination.
I thought the "spirit deck" feature was flavorful, but kinda weak and too time-consuming to tally up. I'd just give it a d6 per caster level and call it good.
Soo... How's the class look in the new book?
I hope she looks a good as the harrower in the first book. *wolf whistle*
The major difference is that the new Harrower doesn't lose a caster level on the 1st.
This alone has taken the class out of the "meh"-pit IMHO. Wife seems interesting in testing it sometime.
I can see Harrow Casting be quite frustrating for the first levels ( Oh, I drew zero cards of the one/two suites I get a bonus for... again. ) but I love the flavor of the class and later on it gets pretty damn good.
the class is great if you have a DM that loves the deck of many things, and is pretty much a lock to include it every campaign
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I really want to like this class!
The class revolves around Towers which is an X/day ability to get three random bonuses (which mostly affect your spells). How good the Towers are depends largely on what type of spells you cast regularly. At the early levels you get some decent bonuses to damage, SR penetration, and Save DCs. These abilities are additive which is nice... but then at 5th level there are a couple levels with some thematic but unrelated (and largely unexciting) powers and the later powers don't really help your casting at all. For example the Constitution Tower grants 1d6 or 2d6 healing when and the Dexterity Tower is a 1 round bonus to AC/ reflex saves. When you pull cards to affect casting this seems just completely random and largely pointless in most cases, not at all appropriate for the sort of class power you would expect for a 14th - 15th level character.
The 9th level Tower is a bonus to caster level which is potentially nice and the capstone power is decent. If your character leans heavy on saving throw based spells and worries about SR the first 4 levels can be fun, particularly if you are a blaster and get use that bonus damage.
Actually, the newer version of the Harrower looks good enough that I am thinking of having an oracle cohort take a one level dip into that class just for the Blessing of Harrow ability. Of course, this character is being added to our game specifically to make up for expected absences by our cleric player -- and since as a cohort this character will be a couple of levels behind the party, she is primarily meant to be a healer and buffer rather than an active combatant.
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My only suggestion would be this: Don't feel compelled to turn every prestige class into a 10 level class by padding it with abilities. There's nothing wrong with having a 5 level (or even 3 level) prestige class.
Total agreement there.
Far too many 10 level PrCs seem to have entire levels devoted to advancing class abilities of the prerequisite class (like adding dice of sneak attack, which you should be advancing by taking levels in the actual Rogue class, rather than otherwise dead levels in a Rogue Prestige Class).
Not much 'prestigous' about a PrC class level that only duplicates a level of a non-Prestige Class (or, worse, is strictly inferior to the level of Cleric, Wizard, whatever that it is replacing...).
My only suggestion would be this: Don't feel compelled to turn every prestige class into a 10 level class by padding it with abilities. There's nothing wrong with having a 5 level (or even 3 level) prestige class.Total agreement there.
Far too many 10 level PrCs seem to have entire levels devoted to advancing class abilities of the prerequisite class (like adding dice of sneak attack, which you should be advancing by taking levels in the actual Rogue class, rather than otherwise dead levels in a Rogue Prestige Class).
Not much 'prestigous' about a PrC class level that only duplicates a level of a non-Prestige Class (or, worse, is strictly inferior to the level of Cleric, Wizard, whatever that it is replacing...).
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of classes like the Shackles Pirate (from the 3.5 Campaign Setting) and Pathfinder Chronicler (from the Campaign Setting and the Core Rulebook). In both cases, it seems to me like the idea to make them 10 levels long came first and coming up with abilities came second; they ended up with a smorgasbord of a dozen different abilities of which maybe two or three are interesting for the level you get them at. I'd much rather have those two or three interesting bits without all of the "filler".