Hollow world had all the big nasty lizards
Savage something was an island (think jurrasic park) that had alot of dinosaurs and strange critters to boot..Lizardmen and gripplis among my favorites....
I loved the concept for Hollow World, as Mystara's "land of the lost."
I think it's Savage Coast that you are thinking of. Had the Lupins as a PC race, right? Anyway, IIRC, Savage Coast was another sub-setting of Mystara.
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I think the big problem with having dinosaurs integrated into a setting is that mammals and humans would not be here, at least not in the same form, if dinosaurs had stuck around. Therefore you almost need any population of dinosaurs to be isolated from the rest of the world in order to establish the suspension of disbelief. Even if you use Dinotopia as an example, it developed pretty much independent of the rest of the world, and the humans that live there came from other places rather then evolving there on their own.
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My guess is that in part, Dinosaurs just don't fit the quasi-medieval fantasy tropes, and with all of their names built off of Latin scientific terminology it creates this modern conceptual wall to properly integrate them into a fantasy setting.
"You see a huge lizard like creature with a maw larger than yourself filled with teeth?"
"Ah! What is that?"
"It's a Tyrannosaurus Rex."
"Oh"
I don't mind the Latin names of dinos being used; if it spoils your immersion, just assume that Latin is the language of wizards/alchemists/botanists in the setting.
Fact is, if I'm looking through a Monster Manual for a dino, I want to be able to find it, using the name I (and everyone else) already knows it by.
I shouldn't need to have to remember a bunch of alternate names, or god forbid, have to ask around. ("What do they call T-Rex in PF?", <reply>, "Oh, yeah. Got it. Now, forget I asked, at least till after next session.").
While I can believe the locals may have their own names for these beasts, these can be listed in the flavour text, or in brackets after the Latin. Such names should reflect the culture of the local humanoids, and the way they normally speak.
I can do with a bit less of the modern WotC monster-naming convention, where every man and his dog is an "Adverb-Verb Adjective-Noun"
(Or should that 'dog' be a Waggy-Trip Furry-Jaw?)
What I'm really after is something that integrates Dinosaurs into the world.
The lost world approach seems to be the only one that exists, where in one way or another the dinosaurs are fenced off from the civilized world.
So I guess what I'm asking is whether anyone has tackled trying to make a setting where dinosaurs are prevalent in the same ecosystem as the humanoids and their civilizations?
Why not use the Dinotopia books as your reference? Many prestige classes and concepts can wiggle between the two (think dinosaur-knights instead of dragon knights). It probably wouldn't be too unreasonable in many cases in some of the more fantastic worlds to just replace 'dragon' with 'dinosaur.'
On the other hand, if you want to consider 'real' dinosaurs and humanoids coexisting, you might want to do a thought experiment yourself. Humanoid settlements might be surrounded by immense walls to keep out the bigger, nastier critters. Some might be domesticated, etc.
Also, I think in one of the later monster manuals (3.5, number III, I think) there was a 'war-dinosaur' mount used in Eberron. I haven't read Eberron, but it might be food for thought.
In order to remove the Latin sting, name them yourself: Longtooths, Armorbacks, etc. Heck, just translate the Latin to English and it's exotic enough.
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I think the big problem with having dinosaurs integrated into a setting is that mammals and humans would not be here, at least not in the same form, if dinosaurs had stuck around. Therefore you almost need any population of dinosaurs to be isolated from the rest of the world in order to establish the suspension of disbelief. Even if you use Dinotopia as an example, it developed pretty much independent of the rest of the world, and the humans that live there came from other places rather then evolving there on their own.In other words, in order for dinosaurs to be integrated with mammals and humans, we'd need to make it a fictional setting.
Not just a fictional world, but one where the laws of nature and evolution function very differently then the way we know them to work.
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Dinosaurs don't stand a chance.....and become extinct/domesticated/food
While munching on your brontoburger, you suddenly notice you are in grass that comes up to your eyes....
Predators don't have to be geniuses and speak a language to be deadly.
The deinonychus in Jurassic Park 1,2, and 3(no, they were not velociraptors, they were too big) were scary smart, and could communicate, so don't tell me they would be exterminated like a compy(the little green ones in the second movie).
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Huh, this guy? That makes sense too.
Yep. I have stood next to the original skeleton they discovered and let me tell you, it's impressive.
In the Dugneoncraft articles in the old Dragon Magazine there was a lengthy series by a guy called Ray Winniger. He discussed something he called "the Rules of Dungeoncraft" in them and they were essentially essays on how to make campaigns. (If you thought they were worth anything is another question, I like and use them but I've had a number of heated debates over if they were good as anything but fire starter.)
Anyway over the course of it he made two campaign settings. The first was for 2nd Edition and was a living world. The basic idea was that the whole planet was the setting's only true divine entity and hat all the living things on it were part of the goddess. Also it was something like 95% covered in various kinds of forest and there were various other goodies. The other campaign setting was more like what you're asking for, it was a low-tech setting with civilization just getting off the ground. Most of the animals that people use for common labor and food and such were replaced with various kinds of dinosaurs. If I remember correctly the gods were dinosaurs that had become divine just by sheer dint of staying alive long enough, the elves had a symbiotic relationship with pterodactyls, etc. It was a fun setting and if you look around you can find most of the articles online in one form or another.
I think I've also seen an actual Dinotopia setting on the net somewhere but I don't think it was for D&D in any incarnation. Possibly GURPS.
still staying with the crazy smart lizards would be outclassed by the magic within the PF world....
That is the problem, not the dinosaurs the magic the two make the combination problematic at best.
Raptor charges and bites through illusion,
flying invisiblile spell caster makes big boom.
Then why are there still Lions, Tigers, and Bears?
Natural Predators still exist in pretty much every setting, or one of the best features of the druid ceases to exist. besides, magic users rarely waste there time dealing with common animals, prefering to leave that to people with bows and arrows.Dinosaurs shouldnt be a target for everything with a pulse. they dont ruin ecosystems, and they are just animals. The idea that everyone should take arms against them is more in line with dealing with Aliens.
I think a pleistocene or jurassic setting with dinosaurs would be pretty awesome, where humanoids were mostly still in the nomadic hunter-gatherer stage, using stone-age weapons and hide armor. Sorcerers and druids would be the only spellcasters, and maybe primitive bards ("chanters" or "storytellers"?).
The main disadvantages of such a setting would be class limitations (wizards, paladins, duelists, and alot of the other PrCs wouldn't fit the setting very well) and equipment/magic items limitations (no metal armor or weapons, or bronze at best -- maybe the dwarves have the rudiments of metallurgy down) that might take some of the fun out of the game for some players.
Then again, I don't really see why you couldn't put dinosaurs in a quasi-medieval fantasy setting. As others have pointed out, they are no more suspension-of-disbelief-breaking than most other monsters. If the concern is that brontosaurs would gobble up all the crops, or that T-rex would be gobbling watchmen off the city walls, giants and dragons would be way worse. Optionally, most farms could have big palisades enclosing them, a la Skull Island from King Kong, and city walls could be 50 ft. high instead of 20 or 30 ft.
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I know this isn't exactly what the OP was asking for but, with Golarion being as friendly as it is to the concept of interplanetary travel, why not have a dinosaur planet? You could call it Gwangi!
Or you could always do a variation on this theme.
Eberron always intrigued me with dinosaurs and talenta halflings, that is just too tempting to pass on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)
I can't believe nobody mentioned the Saurials yet...
It's funny, I've been working on a Dinotopian analogue for my campaign.
Of course, using Dinotopia as inspiration does raise questions. Are all the dinosaurs intelligent, or only some of them? How did the dinosaurs survive?
It's still in the formative stage, as you may have gathered.
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I know this isn't exactly what the OP was asking for but, with Golarion being as friendly as it is to the concept of interplanetary travel, why not have a dinosaur planet? You could call it Gwangi!
Or you could always do a variation on this theme.
Oh my Gozreh, I loved this show when I was little! Thanks for posting the link, I had forgot about it!
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Oh my Gozreh, I loved this show when I was little! Thanks for posting the link, I had forgot about it!
How could you forget armored dinosaurs wearing heavy artillery and fighting space-frogs?
And I know a dinosaur planet isn't exactly a new idea, but I thought I'd name one after this movie because it freakin' rules.